Tacoma Japanese Language School Oral History Collection

Hello and thank you for joining us. This is an interview with Hiroko “Betty” Fukuhara Yoshioka, a Nisei woman, aged 82, who lives in Chicago, Illinois. Today is March 10th, 2005. My name is Lisa Hoffman, I’m from the University of Washington, Tacoma—

And I’m Mary Hanneman, also from the University of Washington, Tacoma, and we’re going to start out today by just asking if you can tell us a little bit about your family background, your brothers and sisters, a little bit about your parents, and that sort of thing.

Well, I had five sisters, we were a family of six girls, and I remember every time the neighbors would come and tell my father, “This time it’s going to be a boy.” [laughter] But unfortunately, it was all girls. But we’ve been very lucky, that we’ve been close, and I’ve lost the sister next to me, but the rest of us are all okay.

And where do you come in the lineup?

I’m the oldest.

You’re the oldest.

Uh huh.

What are their names, your sisters?

My sister? I have Akiko/Iris, and Sada/Sally, and Chizu/May, and Yvonne/Yui. Does that make five sisters?

Two, three, four.

No, that’s five.

Okay.

Okay?

And—

There’s six of us all together. Oh yeah.

And what about your – oh, you’re right, I counted you, so you need one more.

Okay, the one that passed away, Katsue/Cat, Catherine.

What about your parents? Do you know when they came to the United States? And tell us what your parents did, and –

I’m not sure about the year, but I know my father was here first, and then he went back to Japan to get my mother. And he used to work in the lumber mill in Tacoma. And then after that he became a salesman. So –

What did he sell, what kind of a salesman?

Stocks.

Oh really?

[Nods]

Interesting.

Which weren’t very good. [laughs] So, but…

Do you--? Oh, I’m sorry.

But we used to go out in the farm in the summertime, and make the money to buy our school clothes, and so we had fun.

Would you go with your sisters to the farm, or did your parents take you?

My mother went, and then the sisters all went with us.

Okay.

Yeah.

How old were you when you started doing that?

Oh, probably now it would be called “child labor.” [general laughter] But we were, we started when we were young, and the younger ones would play around in the field and things.

And you said that you did that so that you could buy school supplies and school clothes…

Yeah.

And so you went to Central Elementary School?

Uh huh. And McCarver and then Stadium.

And what year were you born?

In 1922.

1922

And where did your family live?

We lived on Fawcett Avenue, 1513 ½, I think it was.

Wow.

I’m not sure.

1513 ½.

And did you live there your entire childhood? Until, until your family left Tacoma?

Yeah.

Uh-huh.

We moved there when my sister was a baby, so I, I was living out in the farm I think the first few years, and then we moved into the city.

And when your father returned to Japan, he went back specifically to marry your mother and bring her back here?

Mm-hmm. Yes.

Did they know each other prior to that, or was it…

That I’m not sure. But when my mother’s brother saw my father’s hand, he told her, “Don’t get married.” And they wanted to know why, and they said, “He’s got big hands, which means he’s a worker.” [laughs] So that she would have to work hard with him.

And did your mother, what did she do? Did she (unintelligible).

Well she was a housewife, yeah.

Did they come from the same area in Japan?

Yes.

Where was that?

In Shizuoka, Japan.

In your home, did your parents speak Japanese to one another?

Yes.

And did they speak Japanese to you?

Most of the time, yes.

And did you answer them in Japanese, or…

Uh, mixed. [laughs]

What would you speak with your s-, siblings, with your sisters?

English.

Since you were the oldest, did you feel, did you ever notice that your parents were more strict with you than they were with your –

Yeah. They told me that I had to set an example for my sisters. [laughs]

So what kinds of behaviors would, uh, would they emphasize for you to make sure you set an example.

Oh, not to get into trouble, and to look after my sisters, so… But we did a lot of things, you know, with the family, so it was okay.

Did your, uh, sisters – what, what’s the age span?

About two years apart. Pretty close to two years apart.

So you would be going to school together…

Mm-hmm.

Would you walk to school together?

Yes.

So did they all, um, then go to Central, um, Elementary?

Yes, my youngest sister was just ready to start school, so she hadn’t gone yet.

Okay.

So 1922… Just thinking, to make twenty years. Yeah.

So did your, all of your sisters go to the Japanese Language School?

No, none of us did.

Oh, none of you did. Okay. All right.

And how, did you notice that, was that a big deal in your life, that you were not going, or that other children did go? Did you, do you have any memories about not going to the school?

No, um, I didn’t miss it too much, ‘cause I used to love to garden and I’d do the gardening. We just had a small plot along the side of the road, I mean on the side of the house, and I used to have all kinds of plants in there. The neighbors all knew how much I like flowers, so when they got new flowers they would tell me, “come and get some, we’ll, you know, split it.”

Oh nice.

So, yeah.

Well a lot of people say that their parents insisted that they go to the Japanese language school, but it sounds like that was not the case with your parents.

No, my father couldn’t afford it, because there were six of us.

Mm-hmm.

Do you think it had anything to do with you all being girls? Was that any part of your parents’ decision, do you think?

No, I don’t think so. Because he wanted us to learn judo and things, but we didn’t want to. But he had a black belt, so…

Wow.

So did he teach you?

No, we said we didn’t want to learn. [general laughter]

So, um, your other playmates. Do you remember who your other playmates were when you were growing up? And how did you meet them?

Well mostly, we just lived in the same block.

Okay.

So, because the father, my father was very strict, and you couldn’t go far to play or anything.

A lot of the children would have been going to the language school after their regular public school—

Yes.

So that means that you had a lot of time, maybe, in the garden and without those playmates.

Uh-huh.

What kinds of things would you do during that, the afternoons? Was it mostly in your garden?

In the garden, or I’d play with my sisters… or study. [general laughter]

Did you have a lot of help around the house that you were expected to do?

Not too much, my mother did most of it. We would help her do dishes, help her cook or something.

And did she make Japanese food mostly?

Uh, she did, it was mixed.

Uh-huh.

Did, a favorite meal, what’s your favorite meal that you mother used to make?

I think that was shrimp tempura.

Ohh.

Like we had today. [laughter]

[Nods, grinning] Yeah.

I’m sure it would tastier than what we had today.

Although it was good.

And how about… who were your playmates at school? Do you remember them?

Well, one was Donna May Jaden, who became Janice Page. The actress?

Oh.

Really.

Yeah, she was in my class.

Huh. And—

And then—

Sorry.

Then in high school, the Latin class we were quite close. So I had a lot of Caucasian friends there.

Was that in high school?

Mm-hmm.

And would you go to their homes? Would you, how would you socialize with them? Was it mostly in school?

The first time I went to a Caucasian house for dinner, was to a classmate in Latin. And I remember I told the teacher, “I don’t know about my manners when it comes to an American home.” And she told me, “Don’t worry, you just follow what I do and you’ll be all right.” So, I went there—

So it was your teacher’s home that you went to?

No, it was a classmate. Jane Elder. And I think she lives in Chicago, or in the suburbs someplace.

And how was the dinner? Did you have a good time?

Yes.

What, what, do you remember the food they served, or anything?

No, I don’t remember what it was. But I got along; they treated me very well.

Did, did she ever come to your family’s house?

No, she didn’t. But Donna May has come to my house.

And so, did you go to play at Donna May’s home as well?

A couple of times I went there.

And was, when was that?

In grade school.

Okay.

Was that common, do you think? Were your other, um other children in the Japanese-American community, were they going to their Caucasian friends’—

I’m not sure, but I don’t think so. Yeah.

Do you think it was because you didn’t go to the Japanese language school that you had maybe a broad, broader circle of friends? Or—

Oh, I don’t know about that…

Uh huh.

How about your parents, what was, who did they tend to socialize with?

Oh, mostly Japanese.

Did they go to church? Did your family go to church?

Occasionally.

Uh-huh. And which church did they, did you attend?

Well, um, when we first started church, we went to a Buddhist church. Because we didn’t have to cross the street. It was down, down the street and around the corner. And then when they moved to across the street, then my mother switched us to a Christian church. Because that was in the block.

Uh-huh.

And so, I went to a Christian church for quite a while.

Was that the Methodist church then?

No, um… Oh, I can’t remember.

Maybe the Baptist church?

I think Baptist missionary school? And I re-, still remember the, the teacher there. She used to have a shrill voice, but she used to love to sing. [general laughter]

How did you feel about switching from one church to the other? Do you have any memories of that?

No I don’t. So…

Was the church a very, it sounds, was it a very important part of your social life, or…

Um, when we went to Christian church, then they had Easter programs, the Christmas programs, and things like that, but the Buddhist Church didn’t have too many of that. They had the Buddha’s birth in April, and then the spring and the fall celebrations they have.

So which high school did you go to?

Stadium High School.

Went to Stadium. And what kinds of after school… Did, did you get involved in aft-, after-school activities…

No.

And…oh, okay.

We had to be home. [laughs]

Was that because your father was strict?

Right.

Uh-huh.

So what did he want you to do? Why, why, what did he, why did he say, “I want you home?”

I don’t know, probably because we were all girls, he was worried about boy-girl relationships, or something.

Did he let you date, and that sort of thing?

No, we never had a date.

Did you, how did you feel about that? Did you think about it, or…?

Well most of the Japanese, I don’t think, dated at that time, so it didn’t bother me. Yeah.

Didn’t think about it much, yeah.

Uh-huh.

Uh-huh.

How about, um, the other girls that, some of the Caucasian girls in your school, Donna May and, uh, Jane Alder, did, were they dating? Was there a lot of courtship?

I don’t think so, not that I knew of, anyway.

So it wasn’t something that, I guess the questions is do you think it was anything that set you apart from any of the other children? To, to not do…

I don’t think so.

…by those strict rules? Mm-hmm.

So where did you meet your husband?

In camp.

In camp.

So you would’ve been, uh, twenty, or almost twenty…

Past twenty.

Past twenty. But you were still living with your family, when that happened. But you already had graduated from high school.

Yeah.

Now do you re-, have any memories of what that was like for your family, when you heard that Pearl Harbor had been bombed, and that sort of thing?

Well at that time, I was working as a house-girl.

Oh, okay.

A lady had just had a baby, and I had gone to take care of the baby. So the, the man of the house had been out and he came back and he said, “Japan just bombed Pearl Harbor.” And his wife and I, we didn’t believe it at first. And then they said, “You’d better get home.” So, I took the bus and I went home.

Mm-hmm.

But everybody was good to me, they didn’t, you know, mistreat me on the bus or anything, so it was nice.

Did he say you better get home because he was concerned about you and your family, about your safety and…

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Uh-huh.

So what happened when you graduated, how did you find that job? And did you look for other kinds of jobs?

No, my father’s idea was I should get into an American home to learn American cooking.

Oh.

So that was where I went, but we didn’t do too much cooking. [general laughter] But I loved the baby, so it was nice.

Why did he want you to learn American cooking, do you think?

I don’t know, so I could become a good wife, I guess.

Interesting.

We used to help her, so we learned.

Mm-hmm.

But when she first got married, she didn’t know how to cook, she said.

Oh.

And she said all the lumbermen had to teach her how to cook. [general laughter]

So what year did, had, did you graduate from high school?

In ’41.

Okay, 1941.

Mr. and Mrs. Cheap, but they’re both gone. It was C-H-E-A-P, just like…

Oh.

Did you keep in contact with them at all?

Well, when we were in camp they, you know, we used to write back and forth, but then they cut out all the things that they thought we shouldn’t be writing about, so we’d get pieces of paper here and there. [pantomimes paper with strips in various locations]

Uh-huh.

But since then they’ve both passed away, and then the boy that I took care of has passed away too.

Oh.

But he’s got a younger brother living in Washington, I think in Everett, they said.

But it so sounds like you kept in touch with that family for a long time.

Yeah, for quite a while, ‘cause they treated me real well, and so…

How long did you work there?

Oh, about a year, I think.

So then what happened when you went home that day, after Mr. Cheap sent you home?

Mmm, I don’t remember much about that, but then I had gone back to work, and then on April Fool’s Day they took my father. The FBI came and took my father, and then Mrs. Cheap and I were making chocolate-covered cotton-balls. She said, it’s April Fool’s Day, let’s make, let’s play a joke on your sisters.

Oh my.

So we were making that when my mother called, and my mother said, “They just came and took your father away.” And I said, “April Fool,” and my mother said, “It’s not April Fool.”

Oh, wow.

Oh my goodness.

Why did they take him, do you think?

He had written an article in the newspaper, and somebody said that the editor must have reported him, or something.

What sort of an article, do you remember what did he say?

Something on Roosevelt, but I’m not sure what it was.

Did you keep a copy of the article? Did your family…

No, because it was written in Japanese, I wouldn’t have been able to read it.

And when they took him, where did they take him? And for how long?

I don’t know where they took him at first, but they took him to Santa Fe, and he was there during most of the war.

So do you remember anything about when the orders came for you to pack up, and relocation to the camps?

No, we only heard from a neighbor…

Okay.

…what you had to do, and what you could take, and what you can’t take, and--.

So your mother was alone with the six girls…

Mm-hmm.

…and had to manage all of that.

Yeah.

How do you think she…sorry, Mary. How do you think she, how do you think she handled that?

I think she handled us very well. [laughs]

Do you remember having to help and what happened with your house and your belongings and that sort of thing?

Well, most of the things we just had to leave, but an oak dresser we gave to Mrs. Cheap, because it was nice looking, and an oak table. But other than that, we had to leave everything.

Did you have any contact with your father while he was in New Mexico?

Not for a long time. And then one time he sent us a horned toad in a little package.

A live one?

A live one.

Really.

And then, when we were in camp he sent it. And then it stayed for quite a while, then all of a sudden it disappeared, so we don’t know what happened to it.

That sounds like an April Fool’s joke.

Yeah. [laughs]

So what, do you remember what, um, when you found out where he had gone? Did you know where he had gone-, where they had taken him at the beginning? Or…

At the beginning we didn’t. For a long time they wouldn’t let us know anything.

And then how… Do you remember finding out where he was? Was it when he wrote the letter to you?

I think so.

Okay.

And your family went where?

We went to Minnedoka, no not Minnedoka, we went to Pinedale first. That was a temporary assembly center, then we went to Tule Lake, then from Tule Lake we went to Minnedoka, and Minnedoka back to Tule Lake, then I came out here.

Oh, okay.

Out here to Chicago.

[Nods]

So did you come out here before the rest of the people were released from the camps, or did you—

No, when all of them were being released I came out here. My husband had come out before, only it was boyfriend-girlfriend then. But then I came out by myself, and my mother and my sisters went to California, because my sister next to me had gotten married in camp, to a soldier, and they were living in California. So my mother and my other sisters went over there.

Uh-huh.

And then, when they released my father, he decided to come to Chicago, and quite a while they were separated, then he decided it’s time to get together.

Uh-huh.

So…

So what happened? Did he go to California?

No, my mother and my sisters, a couple of my sisters came back.

Oh.

So you’re, you met your husband in camp.

[Nods]

But you didn’t marry in camp.

No.

But was he from this area, Chicago?

No, he was from Hawaii.

Huh.

So why did he decide to come here? Why did you guys come to Chicago?

Uh, a couple that was in the same block in camp was out here, and they told us, “It’s nice out here, so come on.” So…

Did you consider going back to Tacoma? Why, why did, did you or did you not think about Tacoma?

No, I didn’t think about Tacoma because I didn’t know who was back there, or…

Very few people went back to Tacoma after the war.

How did your husband end up in, if he was from Hawaii, how did he end up on the mainland?

Because they picked him up in Hawaii for being a teacher, Japanese school teacher.

Ohh, uh-huh. So he taught in a Japanese language school…

Little bit, but he taught, so they picked him up.

Uh-huh.

How did you meet? I, I understand you were in camp, but what…

At the movies.

Oh, really?

The movies you had to go to the mess hall, and um, you sit on the floor or stand, and watch it. And, um, I used to work in the diet kitchen, and then I got back a little late. So my girlfriend and I went and then he was standing in front. And then my girlfriend is much taller than me, so she said, “Can you see?” And I said, “Yeah, if this guy in front of me stands still I can.” [laughter] And I didn’t know whether he understood Japanese or, I mean English, or not, but he stood, he understood English enough to tell me that he would stand still. [general laughter] So, that is our life story.

That sounds just like the beginning.

To think he was willing to stand still for you.

Uh, what was the movie? Do you remember the movie?

No, I don’t.

That part you’ve forgotten.

I’m terrible at memories.

So was there a lot of courtship in the, uh, in the camp? With your friends as well?

I guess, yeah.

Yeah.

So it’s interesting that your father came, decided to come to Chicago rather than go to California when he was released from New Mexico.

Well he liked to tinker with things, and so he came with ideas. And then he wanted to go see the patent lawyers, so I think that’s why he came here.

Did he ever patent anything?

Umm, what is it, “patent pending?”

Yeah.

He had a couple of those. But, uh. [shrugs]

So then what, after the war, did you continue with schooling or get a job, what did you do?

No, I got a job.

Here in Chicago?

[Nods]

What kind of job?

I worked at a lampshade company, then for a while I worked at Revere Camera Shop, that was very little time though. And then I worked as a gold-stamper, pers-, personalizing napkins and matches and things. I did that for fifty years.

Wow.

My goodness.

And then in between I worked at a flower shop, part time.

Oh, that brought back the memories of the garden.

Mm-hmm.

So I worked in, for five different flower shops, I think.

And when, how long had you been out here before you and your husband then got married?

About a year.

Uh-huh, and what, what sort of job did he find when he got out of the camp and came here?

He worked as a salad boy, and then he got into silk-screening. So he made lampshades, and then those big signs that you see on the EL platforms, and things.

Uh-huh.

Yep. Bill-, billboards.

Uh-huh.

Great.

And do you have children?

We have five children.

Five.

Five girls.

[Shakes her head “no,” grinning] Three girls. Three girls and two boys.

Oh wonderful. And are they in the area?

Yes.

That’s great.

One is in Michigan, but it’s about an hour and a half away, so…

Well you were saying earlier, after lunch, that your, four of your children are married, and two married Irish, people of Irish descent, and German—

And…

Oh, go ahead.

Yeah. The oldest one is married to a Japanese boy, only one. And then second one has been married twice and divorced twice, so he’s just living with his son now. And then the third one is married to an Irish girl, and they’re the ones that adopted the Chinese girl, and then the second daughter is in Michigan, and she’s married to an Austrian-German boy, and then, but he was in the Green Berets so he’s a citizen now. And then the youngest one is married to an Irish boy, and the youngest one is four feet eleven, and he is six feet four, or something. [general laughter]

Oh, wow!

So you said earlier you have an international family, and also have a, how would you say, a tall-short family.

Uh-huh. [laughs]

So how many, then, of your family members ended up in California, and how many ended up here in the Chicago area?

Uh, I have three sisters that were in California, but one passed away so I have two there now.

Okay.

So one is in Lake Zurich, which is a suburb here, and then I have one sister in Puyallup.

Oh.

Washington.

Which one is living in Puyallup?

She’s the fifth, fourth, fifth one. Next to the bottom. Chizu.

Chizu/May?

Uh-huh.

Yeah, okay. Great.

And as you think about, and this is kind of a question about reflecting back on experiences, and specifically experiences of discrimination, and let’s just say after the war. Do you think that this, your sisters who lived in California had different experiences from you and your other family members here in Chicago?

I don’t know, they, they didn’t say anything about discrimination over there, and then I didn’t run across discrimination here, and first, first time I realized that was when bananas were hard to get, and a lady passing down the street told me, “Oh, you should go to…” And I forgot if it was Jewel, or National, or some place, “They have bananas today.” And I thought, oh, that’s nice. So… So I didn’t…

So, it was nice that she had told you that, you mean?

Uh-huh.

I see, I see.

Did you feel a difference in, in the reaction of people here versus the reaction of people in Tacoma? Did you feel discrimination in Tacoma, but not here? Or can you compare the two?

Luckily I didn’t feel any discrimination in either place. So...

How about your parents’ generation. What do you think it was like for them, especially with, if they didn’t speak a lot of English? What was their experience in Tacoma? Did they ever talk about discrimination, prejudice…

No. My father broke, had broken English, but he was able to communicate, so…

And your mother. Did she speak any English?

She didn’t speak very much. Just, just barely, I guess.

So as a child, did you have to interpret for her?

Mm-hmm.

Do you have memories of that?

Not really, but my sister that passed away was very talkative, and so when somebody came to the door my mother said, you know, to translate for her. And she just clammed up and wouldn’t say anything, and my mother said, “Here I thought you were going to be a lawyer! You’re no good!”

So what happened, do you remember? Did, some, did one of your other sisters come to the rescue?

I think I had to. I, I had to jump in.

Do you remember ever, your teachers having to communicate with your parents and then you having to be the interpreter in that case?

No, my father understood enough so that he would get by.

How about that experience when you first went to, to elementary school. And the language transition. If you’re speaking mostly Japanese at home and with your other playmates, what was it like then going to…

We had an old teacher who was so patient, she used to stand all of us along the wall, and the first one would say “A,” second one would be “B,” and all the way around. Then we would switch. And she taught us that way. And then “1, 2, 3” was the same way.

So would that, what grade would that have been?

In first grade.

In first grade. Uh huh.

And was this for all of the children, or was this only…

She had a class of all Japanese.

Oh, she did. Why was that?

I really don’t know. Probably because none of them could speak English, or something.

So that was at Central School?

Mm-hmm.

How, do you have any memory of about how many children that would have been? Was it a regular-sized classroom?

Probably a little smaller than a regular classroom, but... I still remember she was so patient.

What was her name? Do you have any…?

That I don’t remember.

Yeah. And was that, did that happen only one year? What happened in your second grade?

Second year we were integrated, I think.

Was that in—

Well I was just going to ask, did your sisters have the same setup? Were they ha—

No, I don’t think so. But to learn how to read and things that we would bring, homework home with us, and my father said he’s going to teach us how to read. But he has that accent, and he would tell me, “No, no, you’ve got to do it this way.” So I would do it that way. You get to school, and the teacher says, “No, no, no.”

What was that integration like, going from the first grade with all the other Japanese children into second grade in the integrated classroom?

I guess it was okay, because I don’t remember anything bad.

How would you handle it when your teacher said, “Pronounce it this way,” and your father said, “Pronounce it this way,” would you go home and tell him? Or did you dare or…?

No, I don’t think I told him. But then, you know, as you learn you do it your own way, so…

What are some of your best memories? Do you have one or two kind of best memories of your childhood in Tacoma?

Well, my father used to take us to the beach, and he would watch the tide calendar, and then it was low you could go clamming. And things like that, that I remember. Then he’d take us to the park.

Did you have a car?

He had a car. An old Model T, and then a, I think it was a 1926 DeSoto that he drove until the war. Then they were going to sell the car. Nobody could drive it. And still when he was driving it, it would go. [laughs]

Was that unusual, to have a car? Back in 1926, and…

I think so.

Which parks and beaches would you go to?

Point Defiance, and then Sixth Avenue…

The park, what’s it…

Wright Park?

I don’t know, Sixth Avenue Beach?

Oh, Sixth Avenue Beach.

Was that Titlow? Down on the other side?

Of course, Titlow. Probably. Now they call it Titlow Beach.

Oh.

All the way across Sixth Avenue.

And then there was Steilacoom.

Uh-huh.

Mmm. Would you go with other families? Or would your, just your family go?

We used to go, just the family. But what I used to love to do was go mushroom hunting.

Oh.

Where would you do that?

Oh, to Mount Rainier, or Shelton, Enumclaw, um, Olympia… Different places, but I used to love that.

You went far afield, it sounds like.

[Nods]

And is that something your father also took you to do?

Uh-huh.

And who went on that trip? Would it be all of your sis—

My mother, my sisters, and then once in a while we would take a friend.

What would you do with the mushrooms?

My mother used to can it if we got a lot, otherwise we ate it.

Uh-huh.

The mudstucket?

Uh-huh.

That’s great.

You eat what you can, and can what you can’t.

Right.

How about the churches. We’ve heard quite a bit from some of the other people who’ve grown up in Tacoma that there were – some families went to the Buddhist Church, some families went to the Baptist Church, and some went to the Methodist Church. And while lots of the kids played with each other, there were also, they also tended to play with children from their own church group. Do you have any memories of that or what kinds of memories do you have of that influence?

Uh, playing, I think, mostly people in the block, so they went to different churches. But then we played together. Played kick-the-can, and tag, and hide-and-go-seek… Then with the homemade rubber-band guns…

With the clothespin?

…they had the clothespin tied to the back of the shape of the gun, and the rubber band is stretched from the clothespin to the front.

Would both boys and girls play that? Or…

Uh-huh.

Yeah?

And my sister that passed away used to be good at the saw, so she used to make our guns. [general laughter]

Would you play as a team with your sisters?

Oh, sometimes. But mostly we’d have one person that was bad and then the rest of us chasing. [general laughter]

Do you have any memories of, um, causing mischief when you were out playing?

No, I don’t think so.

Good.

So your, your parents never heard bad things about you, then. From any of (unintelligible)…

I hope not.

How about when it snowed. Did you go sledding at all?

[nodding] Uh-huh. That was fun.

Where would you go?

Well we used to live on 15th, and then the street next to us, the hill next to us, I should say, somebody would be at the bottom of the hill and then when there’s no cars coming, they would say “Come on down.” So we’d sled down and a lot of times there would be a car coming. [laughs]

Oh dear.

Do you think the parents knew about this? What you were doing?

Probably.

It was just play.

Uh-huh.

How about any of the local businesses, or restaurants, or stores, are there any specific ones that you can remember that you went into, that you tended to frequent?

No.

That’s okay.

The grocery stores are something we would go and get just what we need, and then come home.

Would you go with your mother, or would she send you out to do the shopping?

When we got older, then she would send us. But otherwise we used to go with my mother.

Have you told your children much about growing up in Tacoma, and if so, what kinds of things have you told them?

No, I haven’t told them very much of anything. It’s, when they ask something then I answer and tell them, but…

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Have you, have your children been to Tacoma, ever?

The older son has been to Fort Lewis. He was, what, what is it, those weekend…

Reserve?

Yeah, for a while. So he was there, and he met some of my friends over there.

So as we sit here and talk about Tacoma, and growing up there and, and going to the camps and coming to Chicago and all of that, are there certain things you think you would want your children to remember? Or to know?

Oh not particularly, if they want to know anything then I tell them, but otherwise I don’t sit them down and talk to them.

What kinds of things have they been curious about? In terms of your, your life and your childhood?

Oh, some of the things we used to play, or something like that.

Some people have said that their grandchildren are actually more interested in their history than their children.

I have one granddaughter that’s, uh, wants to know more about Japanese things, and she wants to decorate her room in Japanese style, and things.

So have you helped her with some information and…

Well I, I’ve gotten her books and things.

Uh-huh. How old is she?

She’s twelve.

Ah.

Great.

Very interested in soccer, and track, and softball, and she’s tall like her father. [laughs] Not quite as tall, but almost as tall.

Wow, that is tall.

And then just another question about the memories, what are s-, what’s your best memory and also your worst memory of your time in camp?

Worst time in camp was when we had to go to the washroom when we first went into camp, because there was just, what, a row of seats with holes in it, no partitions in between, and so that was terrible. And best part, I guess was meeting people from different places, otherwise I would’ve been stuck in Tacoma and not known about anything else.

When you were living in Tacoma did you feel like you were stuck in Tacoma, or was that something that you experienced later?

No, because we didn’t know anything else. And going to Seattle maybe once a year was a great big trip for us, you know?

What would you do when you went to Seattle?

Well my mother and father had friends over there, so we’d just go over there and visit.

How did they get to know the people in Seattle? Were, did they know them in Japan?

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Or did you have any other relatives in the Seattle-Tacoma area?

Well, I had two uncles that had come from Japan, but one went back to Japan, and then one died with kidney trouble when he was in Seattle.

Okay.

Were they your father’s brothers?

Uh-huh.

Had they come at the same time that he came?

They, no, they came much later.

Ah, so he was the first one.

Mm-hmm.

His parents had been here before.

Oh.

And I guess they had had a greenhouse someplace, and I don’t know when my father came back, but…

So they had a greenhouse, you mean, in the Seattle-Tacoma area?

Mm-hmm, yes.

Oh. So he started in agriculture, then? In farming?

My father didn’t, his parents did.

Okay.

And then they went back to Japan, and they had a bookstore.

Oh.

So they would’ve been here in, in Tacoma very early, it sounds like.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. My grandfather came back once when I was little, and so I remember him, but that’s the only one.

And your parents never went back to Japan.

They didn’t for a long time. And then my father went back to Japan to settle the estate, or whatever it is, because he had turned it over to his younger brother. Then when he passed away, it came back to my father, so he had gone back to settle it, and then my father passed away in Japan.

Oh…

Oh, is that right?

What year would that have been?

In ’63.

So you were here in Chicago.

Pardon?

You were here in Chicago.

We were here, yeah.

And your mother was still living at that time.

Mm-hmm.

And your father then, was he born in Japan?

Uh-huh.

So the first time his parents came, was he born then? Did he come with them?

I think he was here with them, and then he went back with them.

Umm, and where was he in the lineup of his siblings? Was he…

He was oldest.

He was the oldest, okay.

And he had two younger brothers and a sister. And two brothers are dead; I’m not sure about the sister.

She stayed in Japan.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Well do you have any [Hiroko hiccups], well do you have any other memories or thoughts about Tacoma, or just even beyond Tacoma you’d like to share?

Well, I used to like Tacoma. And going to Point Defiance, there was a hill that would go down that my father would speed down that hill. That I remember very well [laughs]. But I used to like to go to the beach…like Mount Rainier, it’s beautiful.

That’s wonderful. Well thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Yeah, Lisa and I were saying earlier that this is a hard time to leave Tacoma, because it’s at early spring this year and everything’s in bloom, and the cherries, yeah and it’s so beautiful.

Yeah, my sis-, my sister wrote and said her hyacinth is blooming, and her daffodils are blooming. Here, mine is just coming up that high, [holds fingers an inch apart] you know?

But even that is, you know, it’s a sign of spring, it is.

Yes, yes.

Compared to this horizontal snow you’ve got here.

Well thank you. Oh you know what, I’d like to get your picture on this camera real quick before, if that’s okay with you. Great.

All right. [Lisa crosses in front of camera, Hiroko then poses for a still photo taken by Mary]

Great, thank you.

Thank you. [Lisa and Mary move into view to help Hiroko stand up]