Tacoma Japanese Language School Oral History Collection

Mary Hanneman:Um, this is an interview with Mrs. Chizu Tomita Takaoka. Born in 1920, it's March 12th, 2005, and we're in Chicago. Mrs. Takaoka is residing now in Chicago. My name is Mary Hanneman; I'm with the University of Washington Tacoma, and this is-.

Lisa Hoffman:And I'm Lisa Hoffman, also with the University of Washington Tacoma.

Chizu Tomita Takaoka:How do you do? [gives a huge grin and laughs]

Lisa:Thank you for joining us, and we'd like to begin with some background, so if you could tell us when and where you were born, and about your siblings, that would be great.

Chizu:[Reading from prepared materials] I was born in Tacoma, [changing to another set of papers] 511 South 15th Street in Tacoma, Pierce County, and I'm the third daughter of Tainojo Tomita and Kin Nihei. [Returning to the first set of papers] My sisters, we -- there's seven of us -- starting with 1916, 1918, I'm 1920, Masaho was 1922, Hiroyuki was 1924, Noboyuki was 1926, and the youngest dau-, sister's Junko, and she's 1930. There's a gap. Misfit. [laughter from audience] And that's it.

Lisa:And how about your parents. When did they come to...

Chizu:That's it. [Starts looking for particular papers.] That's it.

Lisa:Um, the United States, and where did they come from?

Chizu:Fukushima, Japan. That's north. You want the-.

Male voice:Scuse me. [Tape Pauses and restarts. Scene has changed slightly.]

Chizu:The only way I could figure out is my father was born in 1985. So. [Sirens in background .]

Lisa:18-, what year was he born? 18-?

Chizu:19-, 1885.

Lisa:1885

Mary:Uh huh.

Chizu:And because his older brother was near Seattle, doing greenhouse. Then he grubbed for about five years, I think, and had enough money and went back to Japan and got married, to my mother. And, um, he came back and my mother came about two years later. But it's got to be 1915, because my sister was born in 1916, right? [laughter] My mother was born in 1995-.

Mary, Lisa:1895?

Chizu:Her name is Kin, K-I-N-K-O, Kinko. Nihei, well that's her maiden name. And, um, my father's family was, um, silkworm industry. And my mother's family was, he was the wholesaler of raw silk. That's how the connection. And so anyway, my mother went to school at six, and then by the time she finished jogakko, that's twelve years, so that makes it 1913, so she probably got married at 13 or 14, 1913 or 14, and then, um, she went and stayed with my grandmother, my father's family, for about a year, I think, and then my father went back and got her and came back. So that puts it around -- 15?

Mary:Mm-hmm. And what did your father do in Tacoma?

Chizu:They were, my uncle had a greenhouse, and that's where he worked, I think. But in Tacoma, he was working in a garage. Until Depression, and then everything went kaput.

Mary:Uh huh.

Lisa:And so how much education did you say your mother had?

Chizu:Jogakko, girl's school.

Mary:So twelve years? So both of your parents were quite well educated.

Chizu:For immigrant.

Mary, Lisa:Mm-hmm.

Lisa:And, um, did you talk at all with your mom about the extended education that she had? Did she compare it to some of the other women in the community?

Chizu:You know, those were Depression days. You didn't talk about things like that, that was a luxury. You were so grubbing, so hard to make a living, feeding the kids, seven kids-. So those kind of things, I can't remember. And not only that, we didn't have that kind of conversation with adults. Adults said something, you, you listened. And whatever you felt, you didn't talk back. You were supposed to be obedient, not that I was, but anyway. [chuckles]

Mary:And did you, you spoke Japanese in the house?

Chizu:Oh yes.

Mary:With your siblings, did also speak Japanese?

Chizu:Um hmm.

Mary:Was that someth-. Oh, go ahead.

Chizu:That's what I miss. I can't joke with anybody.

Lisa:In Japanese, you mean.

Chizu:Mm-hmm, sly jokes. [chuckles] Sarcastic jokes.

Mary:So your parents insisted on using Japanese in your house? Or?

Chizu:Mm-hmm. My father spoke English, of course, he went to a, a school, but it was mostly-. And then we had books all over the place, so I used to, well in those days, Depression, I just didn't have money to go movies, so I read.

Lisa:So when did you start learning English?

Chizu:Oh gosh, I think we were bilingual when we went to kindergarten, or no, we didn't have kindergarten in those days, I don't think. I think we went to first grade, period.

Lisa:And what kinds of memories do you have of that transition, from a Japanese-speaking home into the English-speaking school?

Chizu:Gee, I can't remember. I don't think there was any...difficulties. I think you just, you're bilingual, you think this way and that way, and it, it just never, I never, I don't think we stopped to think "Now why am I thinking this way?"

Lisa:Mm-hmm.

Chizu:I don't think I was old enough to even realize it, that I was speaking one language or another.

Lisa:Um, yeah. Did your mother also speak Jap-, uh English?

Chizu:No. [shakes head] But I know my mother used to say, "Have pride in Japanese!" [raises up straight, then laughs]

Mary:Did your mother work outside of the home at all?

Chizu:Work, you mean when I was a kid?

Mary:Mm-hmm.

Chizu:Oh yes, when, when you're about, when I was around, oh gosh, I can't remember. Maybe about thirteen? I used to, Saturday I used to work in the, oh market? All they all had market, food stand, market stand, flower shop, those are the kind of places I used to work in. For ten hours for two dollars.

Mary:And was that true with your brothers and sisters also?

Chizu:Mm-hmm, not the brothers, cause they were younger.

Mary:Uh huh.

Chizu:But my older sister, myself, and the, the two of my, the three of us-.

Mary:And what would you do with the money that you earned?

Chizu:You know, I never even know, knew? In the summertime, I used to go working, they had a mar-, this people that had uh came from the same part of the country as my father. And they had a highway, you know South Tacoma? There used to be a highway market, I used to work there, and right, uh second day after summer ends I was there, and then I came back Monday before the school ended. But I never knew how much I made. 'Cause Mr. Kumasaka would come and give it to my mother, and she took it. Period.

Mary:Would you stay there, or did you-?

Chizu:Yeah, I'd stay there.

Lisa:So which schools did you go to?

Chizu:Hmm?

Lisa:Which schools did you go to in Tacoma?

Chizu:Oh, Central, and then McCarver, and then Stadium.

Lisa:And what year did you graduate?

Chizu:39.

Lisa:1939

Chizu:I, gee I have my annual downstairs.

Lisa:Ah. And when you, what grade did you start going to the language school, and-.

Chizu:Oh, since I was in kindergarten. I think we go Jap-, we went to Japanese school earlier than in-. And besides, that was kind of like a second home, that and the temple. That's where our playground, all our kids used to meet, we used to play games, and, and that's what it was.

Lisa:What kinds of games would you play?

Chizu:Jitori, you know what that is, well there's uh you designate a home, you're an "it," and everybody tries to, to grasp that place. You split in. Oh we had jacks, we had hopscotch, jump rope. We would make little dolls with scraps, everybody used to make their own clothes, so there was always scraps. And, um, things like that. Make up our own stories -- maybe, that's about it.

Mary:Did you play mostly with your brothers and sisters, or friends in the neighborhood, or who did you play with that you remember?

Chizu:Umm, probably classmates, because I was a babysitter of my younger sister, and we'd be engrossed in our playing and she goes home 'cause she's bored, and then I get bawled out. [laughs]

Lisa:And were your friends mostly Japanese, or did you-.

Chizu:All, all. [nods vigorously]

Lisa:Have Caucasian friends. All?

Chizu:Because it's -- between 15th, 17th, 19th, from Broadway to-, Broadway, Market Street, Tacoma Avenue, some G Street, but mostly Tac-, that was all Japa-, that's where we lived. Because we were the lowest rung of economic immigrants. So that's where it was. I mean, everybody was trying hard.

Lisa:And what memories do you have of relationships with the other Caucasian students in the schools, and the teachers.

Chizu:I had one friend, now her name was Elvida, and the reason why is because she used to live in St. Paul. You know where that St. Paul is, used to be (lubbrock/lumber unclear), and then there was a group of Japanese that lived there, and Elvida was one of them, I don't know what her last name-. So that's all the friends she had too.

Mary:So you were friends with her because she lived nearby, not-.

Chizu:No, she didn't live nearby, but she was my schoolmate. She was in my same class. The rest of them, eehh cordial, but you're not a friend.

Lisa:How about your parents, what uh, who was in their social circle? How did they meet friends?

Chizu:You see, most of the people associated with people that came from the same part of the country. Now my folk, and then my folks had difficulty, in that we didn't have too many people from Fukushima, except Yamasaki-sensei. So it was sort of family, to, in that respect. Yoshi, and my sister were good friends. And we used to go there a long time. So, gee, I remember people that have, came from the same Fukushima, from Seattle, but I can't remember in Tacoma. And so with the immigrants, they were pretty well isolated. Unless they found somebody from their same province or same part of the country. They -- didn't associate too much. Besides, they couldn't, they were too busy. Earning a living.

Lisa:How about at the Buddhist temple, did they go there and socialize?

Lisa:What else do you remember about the teachers at the language school?

Chizu:Well, I had Mrs. Koano, Harae's mother, the longest -- I was lucky. And Kocho-sensei. The rest of it was Mrs., let's see, [pauses] there was a Kato-sensei, he was a man that was working, I mean going to CPS, and he came in, the exchange student, and he was making money, teaching. Mrs., Ms. Niiyama, I found out that she was at Kato Home so I went to see her. And then, you know that's about all I had-, and then Mrs. Kamano, we were downstairs and went upstairs, I had her for about maybe seven years. And then I went into Kocho-sensei's room right away, so... And of course with him, it's high school, three years.

Lisa:You were telling us earlier a little bit about the class with Mr. Yamasaki and the things he would teach, and what you would read.

Chizu:Oh, well, when I went, I can't talk about all of them because I wasn't in their class, but when I went there, he asked us what we want to learn, anything in particular. And nobody spoke up, so I said [laughs] that I wanted to learn kambu, which is a Chinese form, it's a Japanese history written in Chinese form. So he started. He was such a scholar. And then I remember in the school, right on top of the blackboard, there was a scroll, not a scroll, it's a map, actually, starting from the era of gods and 19, I mean -, the history of Japan, and he would point to that, and he would explain what was happening in the United States or in the world, it was just fascinating.

Mary:You told us -- oh go ahead.

Chizu:Go ahead.

Mary:Well, earlier you were telling us about his background, and his history and his wife's history, can you tell us a little bit about that?

Chizu:This is from, I just learned from bits of this, I can't say that I could prove it, but he is from a prefecture called Oita, which is in Kyushu. And um, he went to, after the Meiji Restoration, he went to Fukushima. Now Fukushima was noted, I found out, the lord encouraged education, to the people. So he was there, and Mrs. Yamasaki's ancestors were the teachers of the lord of the province. And I think they got that. Anyway, so the two became...they carried on the name of Yamasaki.

Mary:Do you know what his original family name was?

Chizu:Yes, Nakane.

Lisa:And we've also heard stories of some of the skits, the plays, and the other activities, um, and performances, that were held at the language school. What do you remember about those?

Chizu:Oh gosh, they were so much fun.

Lisa:Yeah?

Chizu:Well, you look at the map. That picture. [looks around for something]

Lisa:Which one? [finds the picture]

Chizu:Yeah. We, we had, um, we had pro-, I can't remember whether it's every year or, or every other year, but -- no, the map of-. [looks around again]

Lisa:Oh, the map, this one.

Chizu:No, so de nainga, kimoto deshe. [mutters to herself in Japanese]

Mary:Are you talking about this brochure?

Chizu:[Gets up and walks towards camera.] Yeah, oh, uh, I'm not supposed to get up.

Lisa:No, it's fine.

Chizu:[Sits back down] See this? [indicates on photo of the outside of the school]We used to dress in this room, and come up the stair back way, because the stage is right here, and the perform-, so he had to coordinate, and then. [vacuum cleaner running softly in background, approaching] Oh, you know those teachers, they were just wonderful. They were so resourceful. I didn't realize that until I got, of course I was only (unintelligible), you don't realize that until you're older. And I think, you don't realize how lucky you are to be exposed -- and that they share their knowledge, until you're about thirty years later. And I was, so I was lucky that I was able to say thank you to Mrs. Kamano. That was the only one. And I, I've been glad ever since, but I couldn't say that to Yamasaki, since I didn't know.

But anyway [coughs], they would write the script, they would make maybe take an episode of something we learned, and make a dialogue, and they... Kocho-sensei's idea was, whether it's a play or poetry, whatever it is, when you have a drama like that, in a play, you've got to memorize it. Each kid had to memorize. Well if you memorize it, it's yours. That was his idea of having these plays every year. And it was elaborate, he used to make all the props, and and the whole, and my father used to belong to [clears throat] Kabuki Club. See, in all the nale, the coast, Japanese didn't have much recreation whatsoever.

So when there were a cluster of Japanese get together, somebody knew something, and they formed a drama club. Some-, in a Kabuki Club. And when they do this for twenty years, they get pretty good. I didn't realize how good they were until the Azuma Kabuki came to Chicago, and performed at the Orchestra Hall. I went to see it, and I though, "oh my gosh, my father's group was good!" [laughs] And I used to think "oh my god, they're lousy." [vacuum cleaner keeps running in background] Forgetting their par-, you know, your conversation, there's somebody's forgetting something. And because we saw it over and over, kids used to walk, run around and play. You memorize a dialogue, you memorize a ballad, you memorize a chosai e sabat, dramatic uh gestures. And so these people were, after all, laborers. They work hard, and they forget their lines, but the kids don't.

Mary:Where would they hold the performances?

Chizu:At Bukyokai, uh Buddhist church.

Mary:Uh huh.

Chizu:Once a year. [vacuum cleaner still loud] Oh my, and then so anyway coming back to hum na ko, gee I remember the-, and then they would make up songs, and I don't know where they got the music, but they would the (unintelligible) it. Especially Koano-sensei. And I remember one song that I was a soloist, I used to sing a lot. And I found out that it was part of Nangouita, see she, when she was a little girl, she comes from Takushima. Now Takushima was an island, so everybody entertained themselves. The girls were expected to be able to play koto and shamisen. Boys were expected to at least sing ballad. So she had, I never knew it in Tacoma, but she had all this background. And so she culled all her memory to make up the songs for the play that we were doing.

Lisa:That was Mrs. Koano, you said?

Chizu:Uh huh. Because she's the longest that I have. Now Mrs. Niiyama, I remember learning a dance, it was called White Chrysanthemum, Shiraigeko, and the rest of them I can't even remember.

Lisa:There were also some ceremonies, graduation ceremonies...

Chizu:Oh yeah. There was, uh, New Year's, first thing in the morning New Year's you go there. Dai haishki. And then there's graduation ceremony, there's Emperor's birthday, gee, what else is there? But anyway, there was a ritual. And then especially at graduation ceremony, but-. I never got it, but you know there's a first prize, second prize, and third prize for scholastic endeavor and for attendance. And, um, you go, maybe about five steps? To the stage. And Kocho-sensei's there, and there's uh [unfolding brochure again], about like this, I guess, and then he hands it to you [holds brochure out flat like a diploma and raises it in both hands] and you receive it and you bow, and you one, two, three step, [imitates stepping backwards] and then you turn around and go down. We used to practice that all the time.

Lisa:Interesting.

Mary:Very formal.

Chizu:Very.

Mary:And what would you wear?

Chizu:Just, uh-. We only had a dress, everybody had a same white dress, that my mother wore, uh made. But in those days, you could buy a yard of clothes for thirty-five cents. At Woolworth, and that's what we used to wear. But the formally, I think, was white dress with a little ribbon [demonstrates placing ribbon on right side of chest], and we all had a Buster Brown cut [imitates haircut across forehead].

Mary:And your parents would come attend the ceremonies?

Chizu:Oh yeah, oh yes.

Mary:And would there be any sort of food or party afterwards, or reception?

Chizu:Not that I know of. Mmaybe, gee, did we get a orange? Could have. Um, after graduation ceremony, I think we got tablet and a pencil, seems to me. An undokai too, that was the prize, pencil or crayon or, you know. And so, in the olden times, for the sports event, I think we had it at Spanaway, or someplace down south, because it was land; it was free.

Lisa:So what would you do on the outings?

Chizu:Oh, games. Running, and I remember they had a basket and then you throw the red ball and the white ball, you know, small ones [demonstrates softball size], and Kocho-sensei always had, we had a song. For the red team and the white team. See he wrote all these songs.

He was such a, well it isn't only him. It was Mrs. Koano, and (unintelligible) and Yamasaki too. [vacuum noise finally ends] And we had graduation song, and then I think when I got older, we used to sing, of course, like parrot. We didn't know what it was, then one time, it struck me, hey what is this anyway? And I didn't realize what a beautiful phrasing it was. Just, just beautiful. Poetic. So we had it for graduation, New Year, there was always a song. But he composed so many of them. They did. It isn't he.

Lisa:Yes.

Mary:Did she play piano?

Chizu:No, not that I know of.

Mary:But Mrs. Koano did?

Chizu:My teacher did. Yes. And I think they learned it by themselves.

Lisa:So were you active in sports activities? What did, did you play the running games, or go swimming, 'cause I guess-.

Chizu:Yeah, running games, a race, uh, what do you call it when two people tie their feet together?

Mary:Three-legged race?

Chizu:Yeah, and then throwing a basket, and I think we ended with pulling the rope-.

Mary:Tug-of-war.

Chizu:Red side and white side were pulling. (Unintelligible) I can't remember. But anyway, it was an outing. The whole community came, partici-, it had to. You know, when I think about it now, the east, I mean the parents had to go and dig the latrine, fence off the place, put up these things [demonstrates vertical poles], well who did it? It was all these par- parents, and it was the whole community. So that kind of participation too. And in Japanese school, we had what's, what is called the Saturday school. From nine to twelve, I think, and all the high school students had lower classes to teach English, more or less. And we were paid twenty-five cents.

Lisa:Oh.

Chizu:But that was Kocho-sensei's idea. To help along with English.

Lisa:Do you remember Mrs. Snyder?

Chizu:Yeah, oh yes.

Lisa:What could you tell us about her?

Chizu:I can't tell, but I remember her singing, she was, she didn't have a good, very, when I think about it, a very good-. But I remember learning "Twinkle, twinkle, little star," and "My country, 'tis of thee," you know, that's just about all I remember. But I remember "Twinkle, twinkle, little star."

Lisa:So did you take her class then, before you, in kindergarten?

Chizu:I must've, but I can't remember specifically.

Mary:What kinds of activities would the Buddhist church organize?

Chizu:Hmm?

Mary:What kinds of activities did the Buddhist church organize?

Chizu:There was no activities as such, I don't think, we just used to, oh we used to, there was a basketball hook, uh hoop [draws a hoop], it was a gymnasium as well as the hall. And so we used to go there and run around and play. Especially rains. So it was either Japanese school hall or, and then, the Christian people, I don't know whether they used the Methodists' or not.

Lisa:Was there lots of interaction between the Buddhists and the Methodists?

Chizu:Not a, well with me it didn't, it didn't make any difference, because like Yone, Fumisato, Hanna, they were all Christian, but were friends. My taste is catholic, let's say. [laughs]

Lisa:So one thing that's interesting about the Japanese language school in Tacoma, is that it was not started by the Buddhist church or the Methodist church.

Chizu:No.

Lisa:And many of the other schools on the West Coast were.

Chizu:Well I didn't, well Seattle didn't, they had a, well they had about four schools, I think, and one was non-denominational. And I don't, our school was going for quite some time. And I think, oh maybe about ten years before the war started, the Christian Methodist church started their own school. Hanna's mo-, Hanna's group. And I think she went there. She says, "Thank God I learned how to (unintelligible)," 'cause otherwise she couldn't have written to her mother.

Lisa:Well do you think it mattered at all in the way the community formed, did it have any kind of an impact...

Chizu:Not to me. Oh not to the kids. I don't think.

Mary:Did it to the parents, do you think? Matter?

Chizu:I don't know. Because parents were a, a breed apart. You don't communicate with them. You listen to them, you try to obey what they say, and it's "mm-hmm," "yes," [bows head up and down with eyes closed] and that's it. And you did, you did what-, whatever you want, (unintelligible), more please.

Lisa:What kinds of expectations did your parents have for your behavior?

Chizu:Oh, we were supposed to be a lady, but no, it was a-. My father used to deplore our manners, our way of speech, he was a stickler for, you know, table manners, um. Oh I know that um when we were eating, um itadakimasu-ing, or it, it's just normal. It comes. We were taught that, gritsosuma, osakihigomenasu, all these salutation, just, just since we were kids. I think at the beginning we didn't even know what it meant.

Mary:What, what about at the language school, what kinds of etiquette or manners or behavior, morals-?

Chizu:That I didn't know. Oh morals came in with the, the uh book, whatever the topic was. We had Mencius, we had Confucian, uh and the story of how filial piety, it came with, there was a, there was a -- [searches for word] course, I think once a week, or once in two weeks, called shushin, which is ethics. And then there you had the buus value, actually, and Confucian value, Mencius-.

Mary:So those would be stories, you'd get, read stories and then the moral would be-.

Chizu:Mm-hmm [nods].

Mary:Pulled out.

Chizu:Mm-hmm. I don't think they specifically emphasized it. You're supposed to learn it by osmosis, I think. You know, with ki-, you don't talk, well I don't know-. It's had to explain to the children why you do it. You, you have to show by your example, I think. Isn't it? And especially kids, how much can you think of that at the time? It's because I'm 85, I think, "Oh yeah." It took me about thirty years to realize what a gift I was given. I didn't know to appreciate it.

Lisa:What do you think that gift is?

Chizu:Uh, personal integrity? [pauses to think] They both were, lived how they believed. You know it, like Mrs. Yamasaki, Oku-, we used to call her Oku-san, Oku-san came from a family of scholars like that. She was a real Ojo-san, see? And then every time I see her, she's down in the basement, or around there, sticking her hand in the toilet, washing. She was a janitress. That's a lady, to me. So we were exposed to that, since we were small kids. How to evaluate that. You don't realize that kind of thing until you're in your forties or fifties. Anyway, I'm slow, so it took me that long. But I, you know, we're over I think, and then when I read Japanese books, I'm so thankful that I learned how to read. Because it's two world.

And I think they... Do you know a Dr. Daise Suzuki? He's a Zen scholar. Oh he's been at our temple a couple times. And then, I think the last time he came, Reverend Komo says , "Will you, will you address the group?" "What shall I say," he says. And then he got up and he said the, not the main difference, but the difference between Orientist way of thinking and Occidentalist-. He brought up the poem of the Flower in a Crannied Wall. "I pluck you out of the crannies, I hold you in my hand, if I know about what you are, were it all in all in all, I shall know what God and man is." [slight misquotation of Alfred, Lord Tennyson] Then he says, "Why do you have to pluck it out? Why can't you just look at it and appr-, appreciate it?" And he, and he was, and I was like, "That's right!" [grins]

Lisa:Interesting.

Chizu:And then, when we talk about breeze, we said we could feel a green breeze wafting in the air. And you could almost feel that. I think that's kind of difference, I don't know. So, I don't know what, what I got out of it, but you respond to something like that.

Mary:Would you have learned how to read Japanese without the language school?

Chizu:No. I wouldn't have known Buddhism without language school. [camera hit and jogged]

Mary:Without the, you wouldn't have learned it at church, at the temple?

Chizu:No, we didn't have Japanese, I mean Japanese, well they did too for older boys, but because of the Japanese school, the ministers were able to teach us. The re-langu-, the religion. Right?

Lisa:Oh, I see.

Chizu:Or to explain, because there's all those Japanese. And so, it comes right back to Nihongakko again. Everything does.

Mary:What were the relations like between the Japanese community and the different Caucasian communities in the same...?

Chizu:I don't think I had any. I went to school, you were supposed to go to school, you tried to study hard, and behave yourself, and that's it. That was my duty, period.

Mary:Was that true in high school also, that you had limited contact?

Chizu:Well I was in the Glee Club, and so maybe I had more occasion to associate, but it's through music only.

Lisa:Do you have any memories of, or what memories do you have of experiences of discrimination or prejudice when you were growing up in Tacoma?

Chizu:Of, of what?

Lisa:Do you have any memories of discrimination or prejudice when you were growing up in Tacoma?

Chizu:It was subtle. I know it was there, because well all the Japanese would talk about it, or you read it in the news, did you read those articles? [pointing to something behind camera] Well, you feel it. You know that for centuries it was that way. And so, so okay. Another thing is why I think Japanese school was started in the beginning was, the Isseis couldn't own the land, they couldn't get citizenship. Eventually, they thought they were going to get kicked out. So they want their kids to learn Japanese just in case we have to go back. That's why Japanese schools were started. And then, Depression came. And they, they were wiped out. And then they couldn't go back. And then the war came, and as it, as it turned out, it was better.

Lisa:What are your memories of, of Pearl Harbor?

Chizu:Well, um, at that time, that MPs were, I was at Alice's place I think, and they were, we were told to go home. And I said, "Why?" And then, to me it was inconceivable that we'd have a war. It was so surprised. Oh! But I don't think it affected me one way or the other. I think I was too young, or too much in a cocoon of our community, to even feel it. We were told to obey, so we gathered up and left. There was no, I don't think I felt that I was being discriminated against. Well, of course we were, or that my, my citizenship was being questioned, and things like... You know, times were where you don't think this, things like that. It is. Not "why?" And even now, to me, everything is "It is." Not why. Not when. It's too complicated.

Mary:Was it that way for your parents too, do you think?

Chizu:I think so, I think my father, he was quite, um, broad-minded. And we were never, had two citizenships. You know, a lot of, lot of the parents registered their kids and they had two, dual citizenship. My father never did. He says, "You live in the United States, it's enough. And look at your face. You're Japanese. If you go to Japan, you're, you're going to be accepted." [laughs] That was his idea. So I don't think it bothered him any.

Lisa:So you'd graduated high school in '39, what were you doing then?

Chizu:And then, anyth-, any job that you could get.

Lisa:Do you remember what your job was, what, what were you doing?

Chizu:I worked for Mr. Kamasaka, you know, highway markets... Like I say, I never know, knew, and then it was '39, so it was only two more years after that.

Lisa:So what happened when the relocation order came?

Chizu:We'd. Oh we moved everything to Nihongakko, all our worldly possessions, which was very, very small to begin with, and then left. We had, where was, we were, the order was to put everything into suitcases, and we did. You know, I don't think I fuss. I don't know about others, but I just didn't feel that I was being injured, internally. Or maybe I was too young to know. But I still feel that way. Umm, I think it's up to you, to, to try to make a living, try to make it, try to find something worthwhile. Try to find your own value. Nobody could do it for you. So that's about it.

Lisa:Was your family able to stay together? Everybody?

Chizu:Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Mary:All nine of you went together?

Chizu:Yes. We went to Tule Lake, and then my brother volunteered, but his eyes were so bad he was kicked out. And my youngest brother served, he was in the Occupation in Japan for about, um, couple of years? And then we got a letter from him saying that, "I think they had their first election, and I think they posted anybody that looked like a Japanese to these, the uh election posts." Then we bust out loud, because he can't speak Japanese [laughs]. So I says, "How did you do it?" And he says, "Well, I had one dictionary in one hand, [holds up a hand an looks away] chotto mate kudasai," and he looked [imitates paging through a dictionary]. It was really funny.

Lisa:So he had not gone to the language school?

Chizu:Oh yeah, but see he was young, you see, he's, 1920, was 1926, he's six years younger than, and boys were lousy students. And you can't blame them, after all we went to school, regular school, and then from two to six, uh from four to six it was Japanese school every single day. And they're tired.

Lisa:Were you always willing to go, did you ever have any feelings of "I don't want to go to Japanese school-"

Chizu:Oh no.

Lisa:I'd like to participate in..?

Chizu:I don't think so. Everybody went, that I know of. And besides, it was fun. Um, I guess I'd, maybe I'll, I like the literature better, I don't know.

Lisa:So then in the camps, you were in Tule Lake-.

Chizu:Mm-hmm.

Lisa:And what are, what are some of your best memories and some of your worst memories of those years? In the camp.

Chizu:Yeah?

Lisa:What are some of your best memories and some of your worst memories?

Chizu:Worst memory. Oh I remember when we were being, when we got in there, you had to open up your suitcase, and to have it exam, and these, these rednecks come and shove the suitcase on the floor. On the ground, and it was all dirt. That kind of thing. And yet, they were a lot of fun. I assisted, I was, and I'm not qualified, but I was assistant to a third-grade teacher. And then she told me that the reason why they took a job was because it paid. Very honest about it, but I learned a lot. And I enjoyed it thoroughly.

Mary:Did you meet your husband there, or where?

Chizu:No.

Mary:Where did you meet your husband?

Chizu:Chicago. He was a friend of a friend of mine. In fact, my friend's husband's friend.

Lisa:So when, when did you leave the, Tule Lake?

Chizu:Uhh, '44, I think.

Lisa:And why, where did you go? Did you come to-?

Chizu:Chicago. And then, um, Tae-, I, uh, Taeko was here, Mrs. Osaki's sister. Well anyway, so she was doing housework, and then she, I went there and stayed the night and found a place to live mys-. Because you know, we had one, one-way fare and I think it was ten dollars they gave you, or was it twenty-five dollars? That was my whole treasury. And then I looked around and to see where you could, I wanted to go to college, and then I didn't. Because there were too many other things that were tempting. I love music, I, I could go to concerts, I could go to ballet, I could go to reist opera. And so you can't do two things at one time. And so um, when I looked around, the cheapest tuition that would give you a means of livelihood was beauty shop. So I went to beauty school, and I think at that time it was about a hundred and twenty-five dollars tuition. And you got a license. And that's what I got.

Mary:But what did the rest of your family do?

Chizu:Let's see. My, my brother worked at (ichi-water -- unintelligible), my brother-in-law. And the family came out, and my parents came out, oh I can't remember. Let's see, was Aki born? Uh, no, she was born in Seattle, um, so. Probably about 1946. Well, when was closing. I think that's when they came. And then my oldest sister went back to Tacoma.

Lisa:Oh she did.

Chizu:Well, because her husband is from, I don't know whether you know or not, is Ehime. Ehime is from Shikoku, and then it's a fishing village, he wanted to go fishing. So they went back.

Lisa:And how long did they stay there?

Chizu:Oh, whole time.

Lisa:Oh they did.

Chizu:She's, she'd, um, she was in Seattle when she passed away.

Lisa:Oh. Why didn't your parents return to Tacoma?

Chizu:Because there were more of us here. The sons were here, you know, unreliable sons. [laughter] But he stayed with my, in my si-, brother's, you know, apartment all that time. In the second floor, so. There were more of us here than over there.

Lisa:And so how about, what happened to all your belongings? That you left at the language school?

Chizu:When I went back the first time, you know I can't even remember when I went back the first time, but what I, I went to look at it, and, um, Mr. Fukuye had a grocery store. Do you know where Columbus Ha-, Hotel is? It's on the corner of, um, Broadway, no, Market Street and 17th. And there was a grocery store. And he had a box tea came in, and it was lined. So I used that box and he helped me pack all these dishes and old dishes, and the lacquer stuff was all rotten. So we threw that out. And I sent it to my sister in Spokane. And everything reached there, nothing broke. I'm so surprised. We didn't have much anyway. So as far as beddings and stuff like that, I don't think we, we even, I think we just left that there. Where ever we were living at that time. You couldn't take it.

Mary:By the time your family left the camp, how many children were still with your parents? How many were still young enough to-?

Chizu:All of us. No, my, two of my sisters were married, I forgot. The older two. So I was the oldest, and then my three brothers. And then Masa, he's right below me, volunteered for army, and he was in there for about maybe six months. But they kicked him out; his eyes were so bad. And, um, then Nobu was, I think, war ended so that Nobu, the youngest one, that's in the nursing home now, he was, um, drafted, and went to Japan, as I say. I think he was in the army maybe two years. And then Juu got married, she's in Vegas now. That's all.

Lisa:What was it like, coming to Chicago in the forties? Was it easy to find a place to live and a place to work?

Chizu:Well, I think it took us four nights and three days on a bus, I think. Or somewhere there. And then Taeko met me, Mrs. Osaki's sister, and that's how I got started. But oh Chicago is wonderful. I like it. The weather is lousy, but oh we have so much-. Well, let's see. I remember, I never bought -- I think, I used to save money, and when I had enough I went to Europe, for about three months, on a thousand dollars I went to, I stayed in France, and then um. Then I'd walk, because I figured beauty operators are a dime a dozen. To me, it wasn't a career, see. And it was to, but I was, I don't think I ever cheated. I was always very honest, and tried very, very hard. But when I had enough money to travel, I'd pick up and go. I'd go see my sister. She was in Spokane at the time, maybe three months. And then come back. And then find another work, as I say, it's cheap. And then everything, then I went to Europe, and that was in 1952.

Lisa:Wow.

Chizu:And the warshi-, you know, the battleships were still in the North Sea.

Lisa:When did you get married?

Chizu:Oh, 1953.

Lisa:Okay.

Chizu:I thought, "Well, maybe I better." [laughs] Well, I wanted the experience of having a child. So I did. Not a very good excuse, is it. But oh, gosh, I used to get bombarded, [in sneering falsetto] "How come a nice girl like you isn't married?" "Because nobody asked me."

Lisa:And how many children do you have?

Chizu:One. He's in Washington, D.C, well he's at, it's called Fairfax Station, in Virginia. And he's works at the Patent Office.

Lisa:Oh, great.

Chizu:They all do around there. In some form or another. CIA, you know, FBI, Patent Office, Pentagon.

Lisa:Did you have any experiences of discrimination here in Chicago?

Chizu:Oh yeah, but when we first came here and I tried to find a rooming house, oh they'll look at you and then slam the door in your face. Well that's, you know, after all, it was war, right? I didn't blame them. "Well, here we go again," is about all I feel. I don't, um, I don't think I have enough sense to get mad like that. Or gumption, or knowledge.

Lisa:Do you think there are any differences between the relations in Tacoma and the relations here in Chicago?

Chizu:Well this is a big city. And I think that makes a difference. I know in the Japanese community, you know, and I know some of my friends that came from Tacoma, still have that very narrow mentality. And I used to think the old saying, "You could take a, what, what is it, a girl out of the country, but you can't the country..." Well that was, was it.

Lisa:What do you mean by a narrow perspective?

Chizu:Clannish.

Lisa:Oh, okay.

Chizu:I think that's what it is. And I think they felt safe or secure in that little feeling, that you belong to this church, and this organization. But I found, I don't know what's wrong with our family, but we, we're loners, all of us.

Lisa:Do you think that the language school had anything to do with that? Did it have a very big impact on the way the community formed in Tacoma?

Chizu:That I don't know. I know that I never got a prize or anything, in fact I was one of the bottom, I guess. But then I'm the one that retained all this Japanese. All the things that like, and I, oh I think it shocked me about um, meeting somebody from Tacoma that was in my same class, and they can't remember a thing about Tacoma, about the school. They can't remember the song, none of them do. Or the plays that we used to participate in, and the things that the teacher told us. Because I remember one time saying, "Oh, don't you remember, there was in book, book twelve, page such-and such." And they looked at me, [looks upward with blank expression] "I don't know," we were. Disgust me.

Lisa:Why do you think you remember all that?

Chizu:I don't know! That's it. It could be that I had two older sisters, and they would be talking, and you know, little pitchers have big ears. And I think it's maybe repetition. Now Kaz is the oldest one, there's a lot of things he doesn't know about Tacoma that I know. Kaz Horita.

Lisa:Yes.

Chizu:And, um, Harue is third. Taeku, her older sister, would know much much more. And yet, I, I don't, I really don't know. But maybe it's because I liked it, too. I love poetry, and it was so beautiful. Well maybe I was pursuing, trying to pursue something else, uh beautiful, that wasn't in our life. Maybe that's it, I don't know. Drama is something that's way over there, it's in your mind. It isn't actual. [leans forward] Anything else?

Lisa:Well, how about your husband, did he attend the...

Chizu:No, he was born in Wakayama, which is where the Mikimoto Pearl is?

Lisa:Oh yeah.

Chizu:Yeah, around there. And, um, he too is, he's like my father. His, um, brai-, not, he wasn't too, too, he had five major operations. And, um, self-centered, like all of them. [laughter]

Mary:When did he come to the Unites States, then?

Chizu:He? He finished, he was a, he was born in Sacramento, or Soch, Stockton, or something like that. And he went back, because he's the oldest, when he was eight. And, uh, he came back around eighteen or nineteen, right after high school. Otherwise he'd be drafted there, and he came back to the United States and got drafted immediately.

Mary:Oh boy. How about your son, what kinds of things have you told your son, if anything, about your childhood?

Chizu:When we were small, I used to take him here, take him there, so that my idea was for him to be able to participate in -- he's an only kid. I used to take him bowling, skating, all the, the things that boys do. Because I thought that that way, he'll be able to participate in activity. Gee, I don't think I've said anything, as such.

Lisa:Is there anything about what you learned in the language school that you've tried to pass on?

Chizu:They weren't interested.

Lisa:Oh.

Chizu:I used to read a lot, and he knew that...

Mary:Does he have children?

Chizu:Yes, two. Two girls. I'm so glad they're girls.

Mary:How old are they?

Chizu:One is fourte-, fifteen, let's see. Jennifer's fifteen, she was born in 19- (unintelligible), and the other one is seven. And the seven-year, she turned seven in last October, November. And when she was around four, I think, she called me up one day. "Grandmom, your son is very mean to me." [laughter] Oh it's fun.

Mary:And what did you do, did you, did you side with her or your son?

Chizu:I was, "Do you want me to talk to your father?" And she says, "Yes." But I didn't [laughter].

Mary:You let them work it out.

Chizu:Sure, it's not my business. See, that's the beauty of having grandchildren. You can leave them. Enjoy them and leave them.

Lisa:Have they asked any questions, or what kinds of questions have they asked you?

Chizu:I think when Jennifer was around, um, see she's fifteen and a half, around maybe two or three years ago, I was, let's see. Her teacher asked her if I would come to the school and explain about the Evacuation. Well I, well I had left already. I was, had my ticket and to go, and so I-. But after I came back, I found these articles in the paper and I sent them to them. So what they did with them I don't know.

Mary:Is your daughter-in-law Japanese-American?

Chizu:No, she's, she's from Korea.

Mary:Uh-huh.

Chizu:She came here when she was fourteen. And her father used to be, he got his Master's and Doctorate here, in Wisconsin some place, I guess. He worked hard. That's why he couldn't understand why everybody else doesn't either. He's dead.

Chizu:Oh yeah.

Mary:Do you think that they have had a similar experience to the Issei and Nisei?

Chizu:No, their experience is different altogether. For instance, like Kiren and I used to talk about sly they are, and stuff like that. And then he said "Mom, look at our history. We were overrun by the Chinese, then we were overrun by the Mongolians, then we were overrun by the Russians, and for the last fifty years we were under domination of the Japanese." That's the only way you survived, and that's true.

Mary:What about their experience here in the United States.

Chizu:Sublie (unintelligible). They're all, they're all on Medicaid, they get Food Stamps, then they're immaculately dressed. I remember one time, I was washing on Sunday, and it gets hot in that laundry room, so I came out and then there's the ladies, about ten of them, waiting for the van to pick them up for the church, they all have mink. And I stood there, like bust out laughing, because I though it was so funny. My twisted sense of humor, that is. There it is. They're, but-. You know, you watch them, and they're, where will they compete? They don't know the language, so in their church.

Lisa:If you could give Japanese-American youth [Chizu drops out of scene after something dropped, then returns] today some advice, what, what would you tell them?

Chizu:Live your life. And it's very, very short. I think, trust yourself. And don't think too much. Because, in the first place, you can't save the world. I did, I thought I did, you know, when you're thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, or you're going to save the world. Then you get smarter, and wiser, and you realize you can't do a doggone thing. If you could be cordial to people just surrounding you, you're doing good. And that everything passes. That's what I tell people. "It'll pass."

Lisa:As you reflect back on, on your life, do you think that the language school played an important role? What kind of-.

Chizu:For me. It, it made me grow. All of the beautiful thing is because I knew Japanese. And, and another thing I found out is when I was able to be of use or to help somebody, it was because I knew Japanese.

Lisa:Interesting.

Chizu:Always. So in that respect, I, oh I appreciate it. Anything else?

Lisa:Are there any other memories or stories that we haven't covered?

Chizu:Oh probably I, I'll probably have a mess of them when you go home [laughs].

Lisa:Yeah. Well we can keep in touch. So thank you very much.

Chizu:Well let's see [looks at a sheaf of paper] (unintelligible). At the Japanese school we had reading, calligraphy, composition, shushin, and the Chinese reading. [pauses] Oh the kakurikai I just mentioned to you... [looks up] Anyway, Kocho-sensei, both of them, were such a proud people. That is to say, they had personalities, like I say, here she was washing, uh sticking her hand in the toilet. But I believe she could, but she, and then she had the kindergarten, and she could communicate with the kids. But I think if she was presented to the Empress of Japan, she'd carry it beautifully.

Those, those, that's the kind of people they were. And you learn by osmosis. I can't pinpoint it. It's just that something happens, and I think of them. I see a beautiful sunset, and I think of Tacoma. Or I think of a poem that I learned. Things like that. There's so much. And then I'm very grateful. That's about all I have here [paging through sheaf again and pauses to read]. So they were role models, in Tacoma. But so was Reverend Yukaba, the, I think, the Reverend Yukaba there is, he retired to Tacoma, because he was born there. He was a baby when they moved to Calif-, California, because Reverend Yuko was raised to some higher rank at that time.

Mary:Will you let us have that [referring to sheaf]?

Chizu:You can't read my writing.

Lisa:We can't? [laughing]

Chizu:I can't read it either, I have to kind of strain and, I just jotted down, because I, uh, didn't know what to say. Oh, now that I think, you know the first time I went back to Tacoma, I went to McCarver, and it's kind of, oh I was so sad. Cause we, I had a music teacher there, her name was Miss Johnson, and I enjoyed singing in the choir... Oh graffiti all over everything, everything was kicked in, oh gosh.

Mary:It's a rough school.

Chizu:It was so dirty. And we all went there. Now I remember a couple of times, you know we, from Market Street, Fawcett, Tacoma Avenue, G Street, no, J Street. Well, it was five blocks straight up. And when it snowed, it did a couple of times, we'd take step and come back, step, and we were all late. I think, we had two times, I think, it was like that. Because you know, in Tacoma it didn't snow like that time. But I remember that. Gosh, we were lined up in the office and we were all late [laughter].

Mary:And you said it was an act of God [laughter].

Chizu:That's right. And then I remember walking on Fawcett Street, you know there's a horse chestnut? And we used to kick the leaves and then it was, fog used to be so thick in, in November, you could hardly see [holds hand out in front of her face]. I used to love that. And then, um, the second time I went, I went to Wright's Park. I remember singing there a couple of times. Tei-chan, Yamasaki-sensei's oldest daughter, used to play, I used to, and then I'd get into nihon [fanning herself briskly]. Well some organization or church would say, "Would you send a little girl to sing for us?" And then I was always elected. "Chiz, ya tuturido (unintelligible Japanese), would you go? And I say, "Okay." And, um, I went there, back there and then, I was, I've been a boi-, bird-watcher for about thirty years, and then there's call, there's a bird that I saw once, and oh I was just tickled pink. And when I went to Wright's Park, my gosh there was about fifty of them.

Lisa:What would you sing, when you would go to the-?

Chizu:To Mr. Fukuye's place.

Lisa:And do you remember what song you would sing?

Chizu:Oh, sing?

Lisa:Yeah.

Chizu:Oh gosh, "They Har," you know, "Maytime," some, something like that. Those kind of songs. "Fun Sleigh Har," and, uh, that type. Sigmund Romberg and...

Lisa:Oh, wonderful.

Chizu:So, I remember going to, we were, I don't know where we're going, they come and pick you up. And I used to sing "Kojonos-," if it's Japanese, "Kojonoski," which is beautiful, and something else. And I went to a Christian church, and they invite you to, to luncheon afterwards, and they wanted me to pray. And I, I look at the pianist, and the pianist look at me, [laughter] 'cause we've never done it. You know, we'll say itadakimasu, but that's our, that's it. I've never prayed in my life. Oh I remember that. Because it was a shocker. So since that day, I've learned the Lord's Prayer, but before that I didn't know it, so... Buddhists, we don't have that kind of thing. We always have itadakimasu, igoichosama, things like that. (Unintelligible) [Pointing behind herself] Sam was, but didn't you have a grace? And I said, "Hell no" [laughter]. Okay? [Sits forward and gets ready to leave]

Lisa, Mary:Okay.

Lisa:Thank you very much.

Chizu:Wonderful.

Lisa:It was wonderful. Thank you.