Tacoma Japanese Language School Oral History Collection

Lisa:(Mumbling) So your, um. I want to make sure we pronounce your name and...your full name correctly -- Tay-ko? [Periodic squeaking noises]

Taeko:[Looking off camera to the right] Tah-eh-ko.

Lisa:Tah-eh-ko. Can you do that one?

Mary:Sure.

Lisa:Taeko Taniguchi...

Taeko:Tah-NEE-goo-chee.

Lisa:Taniguchi. And your maiden name.

Taeko:Is Hoshiwara.

Lisa:Hoshiwara.

Taeko:Uh-huh.

Lisa:Okay. So we would like to introduce you as Taeko Hoshiwara (you'll say that) Taniguchi...

Taeko:Uh-huh.

Lisa:And how old are you? Is that all right to ask?

Taeko:Oh yeah. Uh-huh. [laughs]

Lisa:Okay.

Taeko:This is now... I was born in '24, so I will be 82, December.

Lisa:82?

Taeko:[Nods]

Lisa:Okay, great.

Mary:So you're eighty-

Lisa:One.

Mary:One, right now.

Lisa:Okay. Just be safe (unclear) they've got all that.

Mary:So we, ready to go?

[Male voice]:We're good.

Lisa:Okay, all right.

Mary:Well, we're here to interview Mrs. Taeko Hoshiwara Taniguchi, a Nisei woman, 81 years old, who lives in Seattle, Washington. It's March 17th, 2006, and I am Mary Hanneman, at University of Washington Tacoma.

Lisa:And I'm Lisa Hoffman, also at University of Washington Tacoma. And we thought we would just start with some questions about your background, and your family. So if you could start by telling us where and when you were born, please?

Taeko:Oh, I was born in Tacoma....

Lisa:What year, do you remember what year?

Taeko:1924

Lisa:1924?

Mary:And what can you tell us about your mother and father?

Taeko:Like what? Well, my, my, well it's a complicated story, but my father and my whole family was adopted by his oldest sister, so when we go back to Japan, our name changes.

Mary:Oh.

Taeko:So Nozaki was our name in Japan. So I keep changing my name. Over in Japan I'm a Nozaki, come here I'm a Hoshiwara. That was very complicated. My father came to America as a student. And then my, he went back and got married, and my mother was only 17 years old when she came over here. I just looked up, I have some of her things so I just looked it up yesterday [laughs].

Mary:Seventeen...

Taeko:And then, my father was, went to chugakko, you know, almost like a high school. But you have to take a test to, you know, go to that school. Over here you could just go in, but in Japan, to go to chugakko or jogakko you have to take a test. My father was, when he came to Tacoma, he was able to speak/write Japane-, uh English. So he, he got a job. And then later on, before we went to war, we were offering a hotel. And after war, [clank] my folks had a shokodor (unclear) restaurant in Main Street in Seattle? But my father got kind of, that was too much work and kind of ill, so he rented, rented this Publix hotel in the 5th Avenue, 5th and King. And he called me, I was in Hawaii at the time, after the evacuation, I mean, after everybody cleared out of Tule Lake, we went to Honolulu, where my husband used to work there before. [Possibly adjusts hearing aid, squeaking noises stop] And then, um, well let's see, I was called over here to help my father, because my brother was the only one with him at the time, I helped, I came before my husband, because I had just, at that time, my husband lost his boss, [clunking noises] and he was having a difficult time trying to train some people so that, you know. And he could come out here and be, don't have to worry too much about, you know, that business over there. But the boss was so nice to us, you know, he was really, a real nice person. So he didn't want to just leave and come out here, because, you know, he was my father.

But he was a Kibei, so his English was very, very poor, you know? So I thought the hotel business for him, I don't know. You know, how it's going to work out, but he got along well with all those people. And then we've operated for 49 years.

Mary:Mmm. So your husband stayed in that business, then.

Taeko:Yes. He didn't like it, but he stayed with it. He had no choice, I think.

Lisa:So when your father first came, you said he came as a student.

Taeko:Uh-huh.

Lisa:What, how old was he, do you remember?

Taeko:Ohh, let's...he must have graduated chugakko, I don't know for sure, but you know, in order to know English, you know, and that, he must have finished his chugakko. And then couple, three of them got together and said, "Let's go to America," and they came over here. Yeah, uh-huh.

Lisa:Did they go directly to Tacoma?

Taeko:That's a question I wished I had asked my father. I have no idea. But wait a second, he got off in Seattle, and then went to Tacoma, that much I know. But for what reason he went to Tacoma, I have no idea.

Mary:And do you know how long he was here before he returned and married your mother?

Taeko:Oh, let's see... Well, my mother came here when she -- 1918, over here. They were married by then, so, yeah. They were arranged, family-to-family. And she had no choice, she just married him, you know. Then...

Mary:Do you think she wanted to come to the United States?

Taeko:Oh, I, I really don't know that part, because we never talked about all those kind of things, you know.

Lisa:How, how about siblings? Do you have brothers and sisters?

Taeko:Yes, I have, I had two brothers, one of them died, but I have one right now in Arizona. And I have one sister, she lives in Seattle.

Mary:And what's the order? What's the birth order of your siblings? Brothers first and then sisters, or?

Taeko:Yeah, uh-huh. My brother was first, and my sister, and then my brother was born, my youngest son was right in the middle (slightly unclear).

Mary:And what's the span in ages?

Taeko:Hmm. The span in ages... well one thing I know is my oldest brother and my youngest are ten years apart, so about, about two, two years, or two or three years apart.

Mary:So ten years from oldest to youngest?

Taeko:That's right.

Mary:And, and do you know old, maybe, your mother was by the time she had her first child?

Taeko:[Laughs] Oh, let's see... My mother was born in 1900, 192-, oh gosh, I'm very poor at those figures.

Mary:Okay, that's okay.

Lisa:If you were born in 1924, that's right, and your mother was born in 1900, so she was twenty-four and you were the third child.

Taeko:Mm-hmm.

Lisa:Yes, okay, great. We can go backwards. So you, your family grew up in Tacoma. And could you tell us where you lived? I think you saw it on the map earlier.

Taeko:Uh-huh. I don't remember where it was, but the later part, I was, you know, Traveler's Hotel, but my folks had a... My father used to work for a fish company, before, and he also worked for a, I think it was Rose Brothers, if I'm not mistaken. He was able to speak, you know, English, so he was able to work there. And he worked the fish company, and he became a, a hotel wo-, hotel woman. I think that was... Oh gosh, I cannot remember.

Mary:Did your mother speak English?

Taeko:No. Sixty years in America, she never spoke English.

Mary:So in your family, you spoke Japanese, then.

Taeko:Yes, we did.

Lisa:And did your mother help in the hotel or in the fish company?

Taeko:Oh, she was working as an oyster shucker.

Lisa/Mary:Oh!

Taeko:So she didn't help at the hotel.

Lisa:So how many years did she do the oyster shucking? Was that a long career for her?

Taeko:Yes it was, quite a bit. Until the war broke out, way before that, before going to Japan. Before I went to Japan, 193-...7. I think I went '37 to chugakko (very unclear). I think. I can't remember, though.

Mary:So she was working when you children were young.

Taeko:Mm-hmm. Uh-huh. Then hotel was a small hotel, that my father, so he did most things himself. Occasionally I helped.

Lisa:Would your brothers help as well? Or your older sister?

Taeko:My sister was in Japan all the time, 'cause my adoptive parents, they lost their only daughter, so they adopted the whole family. And then, that's why she was in Japan all the time, so she doesn't speak English at all.

Mary:But she lives here now.

Taeko:Uh-huh.

Mary:Is that correct?

Taeko:After the war, my father wanted all his kids together, you know? So that he doesn't have to worry so much about her being away all by herself... Well, she was married, but you know, they found (unintelligible)...the parents are such (unintelligible)...he made them...ano, they went to lawyer and everything, and we got over here.

Mary:But you didn't grow up with her, then as a child.

Taeko:Oh just for about, it's now -- for five years? Five years, I grew up with her.

Mary:Uh-huh.

Taeko:Because first time I saw my sister, I wanted to stay with her, you know, so I begged my parents to let me stay back, originally. My brother was supposed to stay, I heard that afterwards. But I stayed with my sister, and then my sister and I came to America. But the grandparents and adopted parents wanted her back, so she stayed only two years after, then she went back in 1939. With the brother, my brother then. And then afterwards. And then the war broke out.

Mary:So it sounds like you went back to Japan when you were a teenager.

Taeko:Uh-huh.

Mary:And stayed there for a while.

Taeko:For about, yeah, uh, '32 to '37, about for five years.

Lisa:I see, I see.

Mary:With your adoptive family.

Taeko:Uh-huh.

Mary:And your parents were in Tacoma.

Taeko:That's right.

Lisa:Oh I see, okay. Ohh. So '32...

Mary:That was unusual, though, wasn't it? Or was it?

Taeko:Lot of the Japanese people they wanted to send their children to Japan to get education, you know? That was almost like a common thing to do, you know? So...

Lisa:So did you attend the Japanese Language School when you lived in Tacoma?

Taeko:Oh yes, I did, uh-huh. Before I went to Japan, and came back, finally. Huh.

Lisa:And so how old were you when you started at the school? Was it kindergarten or first grade? Do you remember?

Taeko:I think it must have been first grade, because I don't think they had kindergarten in those days. (Unintelligible) [laughs]

Mary:Do you, do you remember going to first grade in the public school? And did you know English when you started school?

Taeko:[Laughs]

Mary:Do you remember?

Taeko:That's eighty years ago.

Lisa:I know, I know.

Taeko:[Laughs] Well, I must have, you know? I won't say, because I don't know. But my, my youngest son's mother-in-law had a picture of me in grade school, I would think about second grade. She and I went to same school.

Mary:Really! Wow!

Taeko:So in second grade or something, she said, "This is you," I can never, ever recognize myself.

Lisa:That's amazing.

Mary:So you, your son's mother-in-law also lived in Tacoma?

Taeko:Probably you've known her. Mrs. Tanbara?

Mary/Lisa:Oh yes!

Taeko:Kibi. She's the mother-in-law.

Lisa:Oh wonderful.

Taeko:Yes.

Lisa:So what, what kinds of things do you remember about going to the Japanese language school? The first time before you left? Or actually, any time, whatever you remember about the school.

Taeko:Well before war, before we were interned, I remember we used to always have a play. The classes used to have a play and all have a part in it. And also, we were, we always had an oratorical contest, you know. And then Yamasaki-sensei's the one who wrote oratorical contest, all the... What do you call that, he wrote for every ch-, you know, every children. I think we had that every year, but it was every different grade, I think. Yeah, he wrote all of that. There were about twenty or so many people. He wrote all the... And then we had to memorize it, and then we would go to Japanese school and practice, you know, and then he would tell us what not to do, or things like that. And then I was the lucky one, I got the first prize.

Mary:Oh!

Lisa:Oh, wonderful.

Taeko:Yeah, I was very lucky. I still remember how I went in front of the audience and they told me to breathe, you know, deep just before (unintelligible) so that's what I did. And then I did it, and then I was lucky enough to get one.

Lisa:Wonderful!

Mary:Do you...Do you remember what the speech was about?

Taeko:It was about war. It was only thing I remember, it was about the Spartan. One of the hardest thing I had to... Mine was the hardest and Yamasaki-sensei gave me the hardest one for me to remember. And it was the longest, too. But I don't remember...I just remember it was a story about war, about Spartans, how they fought, and things like that.

Lisa:That's wonderful. And your family must have been very proud.

Taeko:I think so, I don't remember!

Lisa:Did they come to the performances?

Taeko:Uh, my...I don't even remember whether they did or not, because my father had a hotel, and in those days we didn't drive, you know. And then, I don't even remember whether they were there or not.

Lisa:So how did you get to the school?

Taeko:Walk.

Lisa:You would walk. [Camera circles around from Taeko's profile to more front-on.]

Taeko:All the way from Pacific Avenue to the grade school, and to that on the way back [draws a walking map with hand]. I didn't know what bus to take, though. In those days, we just walked and walked and walked.

Mary:Did you walk with your friends?

Taeko:Yes, I had one friend. She had, her parents, she lost her mother, I think it was. And her father had a hotel also. So I would kinda stop by, and then used to walk to the grade school together.

Lisa:And so you, how would you get from grade school to the Japanese Language School? Also walking?

Taeko:Walk. But one thing about it is it was, listen now, [mumbles possible roads and directions to herself] also you had to do was kind of walk straight, from, so it wasn't bad at all.

Lisa:Would you stop at home on your way to Japanese Language School, and...? Or just go direct?

Taeko:I couldn't do it, because I lived way down the hill and you know, so I just straight to school.

Mary:Weren't you hungry at the end of the day?

Taeko:[Laughs] I think I was, but I don't remember.

Lisa:So what was the grade school you went to?

Taeko:Central.

Lisa:Central.

Taeko:Yes, uh-huh.

Lisa:And what kinds of memories do you have of that classroom, or your teachers, or some of your playmates at grade school?

Taeko:Well I remember the teacher's name, one of the teachers' names. Ms. Dogwood (?) was one of the teachers there. And there was, she's the one who helped me a lot, because coming from Japan, my English was so terrible, I mean enunciation, pronunciation. That's what she did, she used to teach me special like that. And it was very good to me. Umm. I don't remember my other teachers. Oh, there was a teacher...I can't remember my teacher's name.

Lisa:I can't either. I can't remember my own teachers' names [laughs] so...

Mary:Would the teacher who helped you, did she do that during the regular school day?

Taeko:No, I would stayed after school once in a while, and she helped me a lot.

Lisa:Um, and how about your classmates. Did you have friends in school, or were they mostly friends from your neighborhood?

Taeko:Well, you know, I didn't have much time to play around, because, you know, you have to go to American school and go to Japanese school. And then you have to come home and by that time it's already dinnertime. And then we didn't go out at nighttime, I mean, maybe Saturdays or Sundays some of us would get together, go skating, you know, things like that, but... When you asked about the friends, I didn't have any special friends, just when come over to school, just get together, and just go. Not, nobody special, you know. Just walk home, walk home together, that's about it.

Lisa:So were they mostly, then, other people in the Japanese-American community? The ones you would walk with?

Taeko:They were mostly Japanese, we used to stick together. Yeah, I would say most of them went to Japanese school.

Mary:Do you remember whether you spoke to them in Japanese or in English? Or both? Or...

Taeko:Probably both, because, you know, in those days, they knew a lot of Japanese to all the people, Japanese people knew to understood.

Mary:Another question that might be hard to remember, but did you, do you remember if you weren't, if you were speaking to older people, would you speak to them in Japanese, usually?

Taeko:[Nods] Yes, uh-huh. Unless it was like Caucasian old people, but if its Japanese I would speak Japanese to them.

Lisa:Yeah. So would you have to translate sometimes for your mother? Would you go with her places to help her with things?

Taeko:Well, frankly we never had a Caucasian friend, you know, that she, she, that I had to do that to her. So we were all, Japanese kind of stuck together, so it was... So every place we go, all Japanese, so I didn't have to do that to her.

Lisa:Do you remember if there were any episodes of discrimination or difficulty with the Caucasian community?

Taeko:That, that's a, I read in the paper, but no. I have no, no that sounds...no, because I never experienced anything like that.

Mary:So your mother was able to do most of her shopping, and...she just could do it within the community.

Taeko:Mm-hmm. There was a Japanese store close by, so that's all she... And then once in a while, when we go to, ano, an American store, I'd go with her. But...

Lisa:So you mentioned before that there were some plays also, that you were in. And do you remember any of the other topics of these plays? Or there were stories that you learned about in classes?

Taeko:Oh one time 'membered, one time, um, Mrs. Tambara, she was a princess, and I was a frog. [laughs] But I don't remember the story, but that is all I remember. But somehow I remember that much, you know.

Mary:I, does she remind you of that when you see her now? That she was the princess and you were the frog?

Taeko:I never forgot. [laughs] That's one thing I never forgot.

Lisa:Ohh. Do you remember who your teachers were at the Japanese language school?

Taeko:Oh yes. Yamasaki-sensei was my, the last teacher. That was the oldest, uh, people, I mean, you know. And so, and then there's Myoshi-sensei was another one, and then I think there was, uh, Ko-, Koano-sensei.

Lisa:Ah Koano. Mm-hmm.

Taeko:And then I think there was, uh, Kuro-, Kuroda-sensei, if I'm not mistaken. Kuroda-sensei. Yeah.

Mary:Were they strict? Were they gentle?

Taeko:I just... I think they were strict, you know, they wanted a certain way. Like, uh, I'd say they were strict, but it was good for us.

Mary:What did they expect? How did they, what were they strict about?

Taeko:Manners, mostly.

Lisa:What did they consider good manners? How did they want you to act?

Taeko:[laughs] Wow. Maybe behave? You know? [pauses to think] (mumbles) I don't think I quite...you know...

Lisa:It's, uh, it's all right.

Mary:Sometimes, when other people have told us that practicing things like the graduation ceremony or for the oratory contest, that Yamasaki-sensei would tell you exactly how many steps to take to get up to the stage, and...

Taeko:Oh, that I don't know. If he did, I would not remember it. Yeah, but...

Lisa:So what, when you think of Yamasaki-sensei, what kinds of memories do you have of him, as a person, and in the classroom?

Taeko:Just by looking at him, I know he was a very educated person, you know he was all, in a way he was strict teacher, but he would also be very kind and... I have nothing but good memories of him. Yeah. And he was the only man teacher in the whole school, you know. Well, let's see, what else could I say, but since I, I didn't really... He was, he was, well one thing about it, is he taught us Japanese so that among us we could all speak Japanese, even to now, we speak Japanese to each other, you know. After all these years, because of the way he taught us, I guess, or something.

Lisa:So was it, um, easy to come back to Tacoma? What was that like, after you had been in Japan for five years?

Taeko:Never felt anything, because I thought it was the way to do it, you know, that way, my folks thought to do it. So, just... But one thing was, in Fuden in Japan, they have their own language. You know, section, section. And then when you go to school, you cannot use that language, because that would be the language that you use at home and among friends. But the old standard, that's the word I want to say, standard language when you went to school. But I never did get, ano, was able to speak that kind of language. I was always brought up in the sta-, my grandfather and grandmother, they were, you know, spoke, didn't speak too much of what do you say, the country, country were all speaking. Didn't speak so much, so I didn't have any difficulty after I came here.

Lisa:Where were you in Japan?

Taeko:Kagoshima.

Lisa:Ohh.

Taeko:Mm-hmm [nods]. Like -- there's a real funny story. [Airplane noise in background] My husband went to Japan, and then he went to a friend and asked him to stop by his folks' place so he did. But my brother-in-law had to go with him to translate the Koshima-Kotoga to Fu, to ordinary, because they couldn't, he couldn't understand what they were saying! That's how, that's how the language so different, you know?

Lisa:That's interesting.

Taeko:We were talking about it just couple of days ago. We had the kenjinkai, kenjinkai, or we had the news party of Kagoshima people. And then we were talking about that. And it's just I, well if I speak, try and speak my sister say, "You're doing that wrong. Don't speak it."

Lisa/Mary:Ohh!

Taeko:And you know, she would stop it right.

Mary:Wow.

Taeko:That's how hard it was, that language.

Lisa:When you came back to the US, in 1937, then you were 13?

Taeko:Mm-hmm.

Lisa:So where, what school did you go to then? When you came back to Tacoma?

Taeko:You mean American school? Yeah, I went to grade school and was put way behind.

Lisa:Oh, you went back into, back to Central.

Taeko:Central. Yes, I went back to Central.

Lisa:I see.

Taeko:And then, let's see... Yeah that's right, I was way behind.

Lisa:I see. And is that when the teacher worked with you?

Taeko:Mm-hmm.

Lisa:I see, okay. So then, um, did you go to any other schools in Tacoma, other than Central?

Taeko:Mmm. McCarver.

Lisa:Oh, McCarver.

Taeko:Uh-huh. And we were almost to graduate when the war broke out, so...

Mary:Do you remember Mrs. Yamasaki at all?

Taeko:Mrs. Yamasaki, no I don't remember her very much because I don't know if she was teaching or not, but... I know she was always there, but... No, I don't remember her very much.

Mary:So, when you think of the school, you really think of Mr. Yamasaki.

Taeko:Oh yeah. Yeah.

Lisa:Some of the other former students have told us about learning some calligraphy?

Taeko:Oh yes, uh-huh.

Lisa:Do you remember?

Taeko:I wasn't good at it. [laughs]

Mary:You were good at speaking, though.

Taeko:Mmm [nods]

Mary:So...

Taeko:I was able to speak, 'cause of... In fact, I never forgot it. Even to now, my husband was a Kibei, so in my home, even, we spoke Japanese. So my children understood. They cannot speak it, but they understand. But I don't mean to speak Japanese, but people think I'm... I guess...Japanese-y. And you know, trying to express myself in English, it's easier for me to explain in Japanese. It seems like it's more meaningful, you know. So my Japanese keeps coming out, you know. I try not to, but...

Lisa:No, it makes sense.

Mary:But it feels more natural.

Taeko:[Nods and laughs]

Lisa:So when the war broke out, well when Pearl Harbor happened, do you remember where you were and when you heard?

Taeko:Oh yes. It was supposed to be my birthday party. And then I had, I knew a couple of soldiers and they were supposed to come, you know, but they called me and said, "Turn on the radio." And that's how I found out that there was a war. So, a couple of them got, was able to come just to say, talk to me, but no parties. That (unintelligible) I can't forget.

Lisa:No kidding.

Mary:Were they Nisei soldiers?

Lisa:I, more or less, the ones I knew were all Kibeis.

Mary:Uh-huh.

Lisa:So how old were you then? Like... I can figure this out...

Mary:Eighteen? That would have been your eighteenth birthday, I think. Or seventeenth, maybe?

Taeko:I'd be seventeenth, yeah.

Lisa:Seventeen, uh-huh.

Taeko:Cause, let's see, I graduated in camp. Yeah, about seventeen.

Mary:Were you a student at Stadium?

Taeko:No. I wanted to go to Stadium, I never got a chance to go. I was the last year for McCarver, and then we were in camp.

Mary:Oh, okay.

Taeko:I went to camp.

Lisa:So were your other family members home when you, when you turned on the radio? Or did you talk at all with your family about what was happening?

Taeko:Oh, yes. They were all there.

Lisa:Do you remember things about the conversation and how everyone was feeling?

Taeko:I cannot remember. Only thing was we had to hide a lot of things so the government won't find it. Like, I don't know if you heard it or not, but they were afraid, Americans were afraid of yamatotomachis. Yamato, that's spirit, so we had the, maybe, I don't know if I should say this... I was taking kendo. And then they are very strict, you know. And then, so I had to hide all my trophies and pictures and Emperor's picture, we had a lot of Emperor's pictures. We had to hide it all. But when they tore down, it went with it.

Lisa:Oh, when they tore down the building.

Mary:Oh really!

Taeko:Yeah, I didn't go there fast enough, so everything was gone.

Mary:Wow.

Lisa:What year was it torn down?

Taeko:I have no idea. But, yeah, when I came home from, you know, camp, it was gone.

Lisa:Oh, it was gone.

Mary:You must have been worried about your sister, though.

Taeko:Oh yes, my father was, especially, because they were bombed up there too, you know. They were bombed up there. Kagoshima was bombed too, so...

Lisa:So then did you go to school? What happened at school? At McCarver? The next week.

Taeko:Well, all I remember is they all gave me a hearty goodbye, because, you know, we're not going to see each other anymore anyways. And then they (mumbles) that's about all I remember.

Lisa:And then how -- what, what memories do you have of just packing up or getting to the train station, of that process?

Taeko:Well the funny thing about it, a fake FBI came and told us that we have to go. So we were ready about one or two days before the rest of the people. And we all rushed to the store and we got all of the clothes, and this and that, and then we were ready by the time other people found out, because this -- was a fake FBI came and told us that we have to move.

Lisa:Huh.

Taeko:I don't know how it happened or anything, but just happened.

Lisa:And so did, was there any way for your father to do anything with the business, and with any of the...

Taeko:Oh, we were very, very fortunate. There was a person staying at the hotel. He took over the business for us. He watched it for us. And then when we were in camp, he sent us all of our things over there for us. So we were very fortunate compared to other people, you know, who'd had to sell, and things like that. Yeah.

Mary:So this was, uh, someone who was staying in the hotel.

Taeko:Yeah, staying.

Mary:And had he stayed, been there for a long time?

Taeko:Oh yes, uh-huh.

Mary:So you knew, he knew the family pretty well.

Taeko:That's right. Uh-huh.

Lisa:It, so he was Caucasian?

Taeko:Caucasian, uh-huh.

Lisa:Did you keep in touch with him at all after the war, or during?

Taeko:Well during we did, a little bit. I mean, my father did. I, I never went to see him after war, because I was sent to Hawaii, I mean, I went to Hawaii, I was, I married a Hawaiian, so I went to Hawaii. So I never (unclear) or anything like that.

Mary:Were most of the people who stayed in the hotel Caucasian?

Taeko:All Caucasian. And one or two Japanese, that's all.

Mary:Do you remember what kind of jobs they had? Where did they work, I wonder.

Taeko:Oh, gee, I really don't remember those kind of things!

Mary:Maybe you didn't even know.

Taeko:Yeah.

Mary:As a child, you know, didn't know.

Lisa:Did you have much interaction with the guests at the hotel? Did you talk to them very often and...

Taeko:Not too often. 'Cause I was always out of the hou-, uh hotel anyway, you know. Going to school and all.

Lisa:So in addition to regular American school you also went to the Japanese language school, and you said you also studied kendo?

Taeko:Mm-hmm.

Lisa:So was that nearby, where...

Taeko:It's Buddhist Church's -- one, one block or one and a half.

Lisa:So it took place in the Buddhist Church?

Taeko:I beg your pardon?

Lisa:So you would go to the church for the kendo?

Taeko:Uh-huh. After I have my dinner and I would go.

Lisa:Ohh. How many years did you do that?

Taeko:I think about, about just two, two years or three years? Two years, I think it was.

Lisa:Did you enjoy it?

Taeko:I loved it. Get to hit the boys [laughs]. But no, really, I really enjoyed it. That's only sports I had.

Mary:Were there many girls who did that?

Taeko:No, there were only two of us. At the end, there were only two of us. The war broke us up, so we had to quit right there.

Lisa:Did you ever take it up again later in life?

Taeko:No. I wanted my kids to, but they didn't, they didn't want to. So that was the end of it.

Mary:Did you take kendo because you wanted to, or did your father or mother want you to?

Taeko:Oh no, my folks didn't want me to. But I did. I liked it, and I was stubborn enough to do it.

Lisa:So what did you like about it? Why do you think you enjoyed it so much?

Taeko:I liked the way -- what do you call -- etiquette. The way do things, the way, the way they sit, you know you have to sit so nice... The whole thing about it, I really, I couldn't tell individually what it is, but maybe it was because of my, my family in Japan when I was there. The way they were always seemed so, you know, like that [indicates series of straight lines with hands]. I loved that. In camp I even took etiquette classes.

Mary:Oh did you really?

Taeko:Morning, afternoon, I used to go. And I loved the teacher, she was great, you know. So I used to go to it.

Lisa:What would they teach in etiquette class?

Taeko:Well, how to walk, and how to sit, how to write, and then, oh, a little bit of, I don't know -- I don't know what they teach, exactly, but just the general things -- but anyway, I enjoyed it.

Lisa:Do you think you enjoyed the Japanese Language School as well?

Taeko:Mm-hmm.

Lisa:And why do you think you enjoyed that? Was there, were there special memories, or things that happened at the school?

Taeko:I, I really don't know. I just, I kept reading all the, library (unclear) book, Japanese library book. I used to take it to American school every day. 'Til the day my brother got after me, you know, "Your English is getting bad, you better not keep that up." But I kept that up. I think -- what do you call, attitude, etiquette, you know, I think those -- those things I liked.

Mary:Did you pass that on to your children? Do you think?

Taeko:I don't think so. They have their own ways of doing things [laughs]. Yeah, and they were brought up over here, so...because, you know... But my husband was pretty strict, you know, being a Kibei and all, Japanese style. But no, we tried to get them to learn kendo but they didn't like it. They tried, to have them join judo, but they didn't want to. So that was -- we can't force them, so we just gave up. My husband did kendo too, so...

Lisa:A number of the students have told us they learned a lot of very important values at the Japanese Language School. So is that something, would you agree with that?

Taeko:Oh yes, I think so, mm-hmm. But I couldn't tell you definitely what it is, but it's just...

Lisa:So then, did your family, you said you went to Tule Lake?

Taeko:Uh, we went to Pinedale first from Tacoma, and then from there to Tule Lake.

Lisa:Were you all able to stay together?

Taeko:My family, yes, family stayed together. But Tacoma people were either, we couldn't stay together, you know, we were put in certain places. Yeah.

Lisa:What kind of memories do you have of, of Tule Lake? You said you, you graduated there, and you took etiquette classes...

Taeko:Well, you know, all my important thing happened in Tule Lake, you know. I graduated, I got married, I had my first son there, so Tule Lake has a lot of memories.

Mary:Oh is that right! Wow.

Lisa:Incredible.

Mary:Was your, but your husband was from Hawaii.

Taeko:Oh yes, he was, he came to America quite recently. That's why he was picked up. And put into Sand Island in Hawaii, from there he was sent to Jerome, Arkansas, from there he came to Tule Lake. And he came to same block as I was. He was a headwaiter; I was a waitress [laughs].

Lisa:Ohh.

Mary:Was his family with him?

Taeko:Oh no, no. His family all in Japan.

Mary:Oh, okay.

Lisa:So how old were you when you got married?

Taeko:Mmm, twenty.

Lisa:Twenty. Wonderful. So do you remember the first time that you met him? Do you have any stories?

Taeko:Well the funny thing is that, ano, the Hawaii boys weren't very...well, kind of wild, you see. So we kept away from them, you know, walk around them. And then when we got to know them, they were really good peop-, I shouldn't say good, but they were very friendly people. It's just that they were geta, you know, the skaters. (unclear) And then...

Mary:The same shoes? Wooden...

Taeko:And then they would come after everybody else is through, in a group of Hawaii boys, like that. So we just kept them away, you know. Us girls, we all got. [laughs]

Mary:Did you notice other difference between the Tacoma people and people from other parts of the West Coast or Hawaii when you were in the camps? Did you feel there was something...

Taeko:Well one thing is we spoke a lot of Japanese. When the Tacoma people got together, we were able to speak Japanese all the time.

Mary:Even more so. More so than others, then.

Taeko:Mm-hmm. We spoke Japanese.

Lisa:And do you think, did they other people that you met also attend Japanese language school but they didn't have good language skills, or why do you think they were not speaking Japanese?

Taeko:Well I don't know whether they attended Japanese school or not, but I think Tacoma people -- I used to always say, because of the teachers in Japanese school are good, that they were, are able to speak Japanese, you know.

Lisa:Do you, did the Tacoma people try to seek each other out? Do you feel like you tried to stay together with other Tacoma people at all? Was it a community, I guess is what I'm asking.

Taeko:No, we didn't, because we were separated. Like, my neighbors are from California, or Manzanar, or you know, those places. So, no. And then when they there were -- they had these questions, certain questions, they got separate again and we stayed and a lot of Tacoma people went to Idaho. We didn't go to Idaho, so...

Lisa:Did your family go to any of the churches in Tacoma regularly?

Taeko:Not regularly. Afterwards my folks went to Presbyterian, but my brother used to attend--my brother died--he used to attend the Methodist, once in a while. Because we were Shinto, we didn't have any church. So the close ones, you know, American. It went to...that's what we didn't go to Buddhist church.

Lisa:Sorry, keep going, just one second [appears in corner of screen, briefly].

Mary:So were there other families who were Shinto?

Taeko:Probably there were, but never spoke about it.

Mary:Mm-hmm. Do you remember anything that you did with your family? Any Shinto rituals or ceremonies?

Taeko:No.

Mary:Maybe her dog...[door squeaks, Taeko stares off camera to left of screen]

So you, you took kendo at the Buddhist Church, but did you do other things at the Buddhist Church?

Taeko:No, no, nothing.

Mary:Or, or at the Methodist church? Or...

Taeko:No, I didn't, I even 'til now [laughs]. I do not go to church. My folks went to Presbyterian, you know, but my husband was a Buddhist, so...

Mary:Did he go to a Buddhist church?

Taeko:Once in a while, uh-huh.

Lisa:How -- when you think about growing up in Tacoma -- how important do you think that the churches or the temples were, compared to say the Japanese Language School, within the community. Do you think -- did they play any particular role of bringing the people together, or were they, did they have a lot to do with people's identities in any way, do you think?

Taeko:Mmm. That's a very hard question to answer. Yeah.

Lisa:One thing that's interesting about Tacoma's Japanese Language School is that it wasn't sponsored by any church.

Taeko:That's right. That's right.

Lisa:Do you think that was, is significant in Tacoma?

Taeko:Yeah, I think so. Mmm.

Mary:So your playmates, your classmates, maybe were, went to the Buddhist Church, or maybe the Methodist Church, or...

Taeko:Oh yeah, it was all different churches, yes, uh-huh.

Mary:Were you very aware of that? Was that important, was it a big deal, or just...

Taeko:Mmm, I never thought about that.

Mary:Uh-huh.

Lisa:Did you, did the, the language school ever feel like it was also a community center?

Taeko:I think so, I think so, because we used to have a picnic together, you know, and things like that.

Mary:Some, some people have told us about the undokai...

Taeko:That's it.

Mary:Do you remember?

Taeko:We used to have it every year, we used to have undokai at the, what was the name of that... Spanaway. That's where we had undokai. We were divided, the red and white, and then compete against each other.

Mary:Do you remember some of the things you would do, to compete in?

Taeko:Well, we had a, what did you call, tanoshki, or the big rope, and then we would be divided [pantomimes a tug-of-war] and mmmm.

Mary:Oh yeah. What do you call that...

Lisa:Tug-of-war.

Taeko:Tug-, yeah. Right. That's what I remember. The rest I don't remember at all.

Lisa:Would you cook foods? What kind, what kind of food would you eat...

Taeko:Right now?

Lisa:No, in the picnics.

Taeko:Picnic? Oh, we used to have onigiri, and then chicken, that's about...oh boiled eggs, you know, this kind of thing.

Mary:What kind of foods would your mother make at home?

Taeko:Oh, we had Japanese food all the time. So...

Mary:And even today, do you cook Japanese?

Taeko:Yes, mostly. My husband was a very good cook and he would cook Japanese food. And then when he comes to American, no (unintelligible) he would do Japanese. He used to work in the wholesale gro-, wholesale vegetable. That's why he used to go on all the restaurants, and things like that.

Lisa:So what, um, when did you leave camp? What, what happened, did your whole family stay together? I think you said you were, you went to Hawaii...

Taeko:Mm-hmm, my folks came to Seattle, came back to Seattle, not back to Tacoma, but to Seattle, you know. When they were in Tacoma, a friend, they had a real good friend in Seattle, they wound up in, folks moving to Seattle, but my folks just stayed in Tacoma.

Mary:But then they came, after the war, they decided to come...Because of their friends?

Taeko:I think so.

Lisa:Did they come back to Tacoma at all? And what did they find when they came back to Tacoma?

Taeko:I don't think they even went back to Tacoma from the beginning. They came here, and then started business, (unclear) a restaurant.

Mary:And you went with your husband to Hawaii, and met your parents-in-law for the first time?

Taeko:Oh, his parents were all in Japan, so...

Mary:Oh, of course, I'm sorry.

Taeko:So I didn't get to meet them, I just got to meet his boss and his wife, were real nice.

Mary:And did you meet his parents, ever?

Taeko:No, never did. But his sister came over, so I met her.

Lisa:And when you were in Hawaii, did you find a job, or what did you do in Hawaii? You raised -- how many children do you have?

Taeko:Well I had one in every port [general laughter], so Hawaii I had one, and then Tule Lake I had one, and one Hawaii one, and the rest of them in Seattle.

Lisa:Okay. So you, what year was it, then, that your father called you back to Seattle?

Taeko:Eto-ni, my daughter's (mumbling) forty (mumbling in Japanese), [thinks for a while] my daughter was one years old when she came to Seattle, 1959 was it?

Mary:So you brought your children with you, when you came.

Taeko:Well I just had the one, two of them, my oldest and my daughter.

Mary:And they came with you, when you came to Seattle.

Taeko:Mm-hmm.

Lisa:Where did you live in Seattle, do you remember?

Taeko:I lived at the hotel. 'Cause my folks had the Publix hotel, on 5th and King, so we came and stayed with them in the small room. Whole family stayed in a small room. And then they got big, and you know, that place got kinda too small, so we bought this place.

Lisa:Okay. And so how many years have you been in this home?

Taeko:Almost fifty years.

Lisa:Is that right. Wow. That's amazing.

Did you go back to Tacoma, ever, for a visit?

Taeko:Yes, when there's funeral, or wedding, or something like I'll go. And then, oh the last one was when the big boat came in, you know (unclear). My daughter wanted to see it, so we went there and we enjoyed it over there.

Lisa:So what kinds of feelings do you have when you go back to Tacoma?

Taeko:Uh, Tacoma was small, you know compared to Seattle.

Lisa:Did you, did you visit the place where your hotel was?

Taeko:We always pass by there, yeah.

Mary:Other than size, did you notice any difference between the Japanese community in Seattle and the Japanese community in Tacoma?

Taeko:Not too many Japanese came back to Tacoma, you know, they spread out all over the United States, so, not too many. But every time they have a reunion, especially Tacoma reunion, I never missed. I always went.

Lisa:Yeah.

Mary:Do you think that the Japanese in Seattle can speak Japanese as well as the Japanese community people in Tacoma?

Taeko:[Shakes her head]. No.

Mary:No?

Taeko:I feel with Tacoma. Very much.

Lisa:What kinds of things have you told your children about growing up in Tacoma?

[Male voice]:If there's a good place to stop, I need to switch tapes in about three minutes.

Mary:Okay, okay.

Taeko:Huh, I beg your pardon?

Lisa:Sorry, what kinds of things have you told your children about growing up in Tacoma?

Taeko:We never discussed.

Lisa:No?

Taeko:That's why my son gets mad at me, you know, because even about Tule, we never talked about it, and Tacoma. I will just tell them where the hotel was, that's about it.

Mary:Do they ask you questions?

Taeko:No. But now they do, you know. They want to know. It's too late.

Mary:He needs to change.

Lisa:I guess we should probably -- he needs to change the tape.

Taeko:Oh [laughs].

Lisa:So you know that the Japanese language school building has been torn down.

Taeko:Mm-hmm.

Lisa:Now.

Taeko:I heard about it.

Lisa:Are, is there anything, do you have any particular reaction, when that happened, any kinds of feelings or memories, about it being torn down?

Taeko:Oh that's progress, so I thought, you know, it has to be done. It was wooden building anyway, you know. I know it won't last. But I thought it was a great idea, that in fact you folks are trying to, you know do, make it into a park or something. That's really something.

Mary:Do you have any suggestions for the park?

Taeko:Well, it's got a nice architect, and then what I heard, they're going to have sort of a Japanese way of having a lot of things. That, I'm very happy about that.

Lisa:That's great.

Mary:So you got to see the, the plan and everything.

Taeko:Yes, uh-huh, the other time we had a meeting.

Mary:Uh-huh. And do you know the architect's mother?

Taeko:Yes, Ya-chan? Yes, I do, uh-huh. We were in Tule Lake together.

Mary:Oh. [sounds of microphone being hit]

Taeko:And even before. I used to know her younger sister. She passed away, but you know. We did Japanese dance together. All the, when we had the festival, you know, Japanese (unclear) we had a festival. And danced together.

Lisa:Oh wonderful.

Taeko:Yeah.

Mary:So you were classmates?

Taeko:I think she was one year younger than me. And Ya-chan was one year older than me, so I was right in between them.

Mary:Would you have the Japanese dances at the school?

Taeko:No, no, it was, I think that was as a community, you know, they had the, when they had the Daffodil parade, the Japanese people would go. And they had sometime the Buddhist church would have mondori and then they have practice. Yeah. I used to love that and hotori.

Lisa:So I, actually I'd love to go back to Tule Lake for a moment, just because you, you had so many important experiences there. And how -- could you tell us a little about your wedding ceremony? What was that like there?

Taeko:Well, it was a very simple one, because camp didn't have very many things. So we had to order everything outside, mostly the Carrattle (catalogue? Colorado? Unclear), where they had a lot of things. Of course we couldn't invite too many people, because barrack, it was a barrack. And I had a friend who was very good seamstress, she sewed my wedding gown for me. And everything we had to order outside, because, you know, in camp only the necessities were, they'd sell only the necessities. And there were small store anyways, so...

Lisa:And who conducted the ceremony?

Taeko:Somebody my husband knew. He was a priest (unclear).

Lisa:Okay.

Mary:A Buddhist priest?

Taeko:A Buddhist priest, uh-huh.

Lisa:And, and then, where did you live after that?

Taeko:Barrack.

Lisa:In the barracks.

Taeko:Yeah. Right, with my parents [laughs]. But I, one person was nice enough to vacate that place because he was living alone, so that, after he moved for us we went in there, but...

Mary:You had your own place.

Taeko:Uh-huh, my own place is right.

Lisa:That's great.

Mary:No honeymoon, I guess.

Taeko:No honeymoon.

Mary:After, after you had a honeymoon later.

Taeko:I don't even remember where honeymoon is, because we never had it.

Mary:And, and your son was born in the camp.

Taeko:Uh-huh.

Mary:In the hospital there.

Taeko:Yes, but there were, the mothers were treated so nice, because of all the extra food we used to get for, other people cannot get. Eggs, and milk, and things like that. Oh, fruits, and everything like that, when you had the baby, you had all those beautiful food, that others couldn't have.

Mary:Was that when you were still pregnant, or after you gave birth?

Taeko:After I had my baby, yeah, uh-huh.

Lisa:Wow.

Mary:Your parents must have been delighted to have a grandson.

Taeko:Yeah, I think so.

Mary:Something to be happy about.

Taeko:Uh-huh.

Lisa:Interesting.

So it's, um, when you think back to Tule Lake, how, how do you characterize that in your life? Because it's both, I mean, it's both obviously very positive and obviously it's also a negative, so how do you make sense of that for yourself? Is it, is it primarily good memories, or are there other kinds of memories that you have of being there?

Taeko:I think it's kind mixed, you know. For me, I was lucky, I would graduate, and married, and have my son. But there were some incidents within the camp too, so, that was a bad memory.

Well, it had to happen, so... I hope it doesn't happen again, that's all I say.

Mary:How was it for your parents, do you think?

Taeko:Well, they were, my folks wanted to go back to Japan until they learned that Japan lost. You know, until -- when they were winning. Not winning, they were fighting war, they were planned to go to Japan, but after that, you know...

Mary:Maybe they felt they didn't belong here, they didn't belong there, where did they belong?

Taeko:Mmm.

Lisa:[Thunking in background] Is this your daughter you think, maybe, or someone who is coming in?

Taeko:I think so.

Lisa:Great [door slams].

So are there any other memories or thoughts about the Japanese Language School that, [female voice in background] or growing up in Tacoma that you would like to share with us?

Taeko:Only thing I could share really, is just that we were very fortunate to have Mr. Yamasaki as our teacher. That's one thing I could say. Uh, let's see. I'm not good at this kind of thing.

Mary:You've gone great!

Lisa:You've done wonderfully.

So, well let me just ask one other question about that, is... How do you think the school should be remembered, or commemorated? There's a garden planned, but there's also maybe going to be some stories posted somewhere, in a public place, or there may be a plaque some place. I don't know if you have ideas about, about that, and especially given your comments about Yamasaki-sensei.

Taeko:Wow. Well just making a Japanese garden, I think, that's, that's, I think it's just great. I never even thought they were going to do things like that, you know. But I think it's great. But other than that, I don't know. I'm not very...

Mary:She was saying earlier that one of her husband's close friends did the Japanese garden, Washington garden over here, so... And you have some beautiful Japanese pines out in your yard...

Taeko:Oh that's my husband's favorite. He used to have a lot of bonsai, but one winter he lost them all.

Mary:Oh, that's too bad.

Taeko:I'm trying to keep it up -- it's pretty hard.

Mary/Lisa:Yeah.

Lisa:Well thank you very much.

Taeko:You're welcome. I don't know if I was any help, but...

Mary:Oh, don't you think you remembered more than you expected?

Taeko:Well, maybe so.

Mary:You had lots of good memories to share with us, I think.

Taeko:My daughter won't think so [laughs].

Lisa:Well maybe just at the end we can go over some of your family's names...

Taeko:Oh, uh-huh, okay.

Lisa:...and things like that, just to make sure we get all of that.

Great. Thank you, I think we're all set.

Mary:Thank you, yeah.