Tacoma Japanese Language School Oral History Collection

Hello and thank you for joining us today. This is an interview with Jack Kazuo Hata, a Nisei man, aged 83 who lives in Northridge, CA in Los Angeles. Today is January 30th, 2005 and I'm Lisa Hoffman from University of Washington Tacoma. So, I would like to just begin with you telling us where and when you were born.

I was born in Tacoma, WA. May 17, 1921.

And you're an only child. Is that right?

Yes, I am.

Could you tell me a little bit about your parents, where they came from and when they came to the United States?

My father and my mother were both born in Toyama City, Japan and my father came I believe in 1915 at the age of about 25.

And my mother came in 1920 on the last boat that the United States permitted for people to immigrate here. So she was the last person to come to the United States, as a group.

Did your parents meet in Japan?

Yes, they both met in Japan in Toyama. Sort of unusual. They met and fell in love and married. Which is unusual because usually it’s family arranged marriages, you know. But I guess Dad was a little different (laughs).

Did you hear any stories of how they met?

Well, he was a conscript in the army. And my mother used to teach school. And she would be walking down this country road. And I guess the barracks were close by and I guess dad saw her. (laughs) I guess that's how they met. That's what I heard from my cousin.

That's a very sweet story. So, why did your father go to the United States?

That, I don't know why. But he was a little bit of a maverick, I guess. My grandfather was a doctor and grandfather wanted, he was the third, second son. The first son refused to go to medical school, so Dad was asked to go to medical school, which he didn't wanna do either. So, the third son finally consented and became a doctor. But my dad, he was pretty athletic, he was physically larger than I am. And he was in the army, and after his service is over, I guess he decided he wanted to come to United States, so. My mother used to complain that right after they got married that he decided to come to the United States. So, my mother used to complain that he left her for six years (laughs)

Oh, they got married before he left.

Right, before he left for here.

And why did your mother not go with him?

I had no idea.

So, do you know what your father did when he first came? Did he go? I guess the first question is where did he go when he first arrived?

I heard, I heard that he came to Guadalupe here in California. For what purpose, I don't know. Then I guess he migrated up north towards Tacoma. And that's where he ended up.

And do you know what he was doing? What kind of work?

No, I don't know that, but I guess probably he studied photography in Portland. I think he lived in Portland for a while and then probably he bought a studio in Tacoma. But I had never talked to him about it, so I'm not sure.

So, you were born in 1921.

Right.

And where did you live in Tacoma?

Right across the street from the Buddhist church. The minister's house was directly across the street.

So was that on Fawcett Avenue?

That was on Fawcett Avenue. 1722 Fawcett Avenue.

That's a good memory.

yeah. (laughs)

And were you born in that house?

No.

Where were you born?

The house, I don't know. It was about... couple three blocks away. I think on Fawcett Avenue, but I'm not sure of that.

And what was your father’s occupation when you were a child?

He was a photographer. He had a photo studio for a while. And then he went to work for a portrait studio called Robert M. Smith Studio. It was, I guess it was the best studio Tacoma. And it was a few doors down from Winthrop Hotel. So that will be on Broadway, I think.

And who would he take pictures of mostly?

Well, he was, did not take pictures at the studio. He was a photo finisher. Did all the printing, developing, retouching.

And, my understanding is that he took a number of pictures of the Japanese community. Is that right?

Yeah, he was a Japanese community photographer, so he took all the group pictures, the weddings, the funerals, et cetera.

Did you help him? Would you go to the studio?

No, I didn't help him. I was too young, I guess.

And how about your mother? What kind of work did she do?

She taught at the language school. She was there for probably around 15 years till the war started.

So, when you were a little child, she was home with you?

Right, she taught from first grade on so I was there almost 15 years also.

Umm, and did your parents speak English?

My dad did, because he was always with the Caucasian. My mother did not.

What language would you speak mostly at home?

At home, I'd speak Japanese. With my...outside of the home, it was always English.

So, when you went, what happened when you went to school, did you go to Central Elementary?

No, I went to school, called Longfellow. It was a wooden structure. I think that was demolished years and years ago.

Why did you go to Longfellow? Many of the other children your age went to central?

I think I was closer to Longville than to Central.

Ok, and how did you get to school?

Walk. Walking.

With friends or by yourself?

Pretty much by myself. Because most of the my friends went to Central. Because they were closer to central than to Longfellow. So I was pretty much alone.

Were there other Japanese American children in your classroom?

I think there was one. One Japanese American student.

But so it sounds like it was quite different from Central?

Yeah.

So, what was that like when you grew up in a Japanese speaking household and then you had to go into an English-speaking elementary school?

There was no problem, not at all, seemed like it was just a natural thing to do. Because, you know, my mother didn't understand English at all. So, I don't know, it's just. It didn't affect me in any way.

Did you know any English when you first started in elementary school?

I think so. Just. Excuse me. I can't recall that I had difficulty. It all seemed natural.

Did you have any relatives, other relatives living in the Tacoma area?

No. I didn't have any relatives, no siblings (laughs).

So, who were your playmates?

Well, they were classmates at the language school, because as I said, I didn't go to school with the many Japanese Americans, so I think it was more at the language school that, you know, I became close with other Japanese American kids.

And for most of your play time, was it with the other Japanese Americans?

Right.

Did you play much with other Caucasian children?

No, no, it's it was all just, just about all Japanese Americans. The kids I went to school with and you really don't know why. I don't know why, it may be that the kids that the Caucasian kids live not too close to me, that could have been the reason, but other than that, I have no idea why.

Do you remember any experiences of racism or discrimination as a little boy, growing up in Tacoma?

No, I...have no recollection.

What about your parents? Would they ever talk about things like this?

No, no, strictly about Japanese things.

And, what year did you start attending the language school then?

I think from the first grade on.

Is that also when your mother started teaching, at the school?

I’m sorry, I didn't hear you.

Ohh, is that also when your mother started teaching at the school?

I think so, I think so. Either she started first or I started first, I don't remember.

So what are some of the things that you learned in school, at the language school?

What did I learn?

What kinds of classes did you have?

Well, basically, the language school was to learn the language. So that's what was the primary objective, I guess plus learning calligraphy and a little bit of history.

And, were you excited to go to the language school? Did you have any choice about going to the school?

I don't think so (laughs) I went because I think I had to go.

Why do you think your parents wanted you to go?

I think that was the thing to do. You go to the language school, just about everybody in Tacoma, I think went to the language school. I don't know hardly anybody that didn't go.

So, do you remember who your teachers were? Do you remember any of their names of your teachers?

I remember two names. I don't know what their first names were, but Mrs. Colonel and Mrs. Kuroda and for a short while there was a lady named Mrs. Fujie. Those are the three that I recall.

What do you remember about them?

Hardly anything.

And what kinds of, in addition to the classes about the language, many of the former students have talked about some skits that they've performed in.

Yes.

Oratory performances?

Yes, I participated in the oratorical contests and the plays and in this, in the late spring the school had a, what do you, what do you call that, outdoor activity. Other than that, it was mostly study study I think.

And, what did you speak about when you did the oratorical contest?

(Laughs) That I don't remember.

And do you remember any of the topics of the skits, the plays that you were in?

No, no.

How about any ceremonies?

Well, I think that Mister Yamasaki was, had the Emperor’s Birthday or something. Other than that, ohh graduation day I think had program, but other than that, I don't recall. A lot of the things as a kid you didn't care to do, you know, so it kind of passes out.

Who would come to the ceremonies and the plays and things like that?

Parents. Parents.

So, it would be an auditorium filled with people?

Yeah, it was usually all filled with, you know, parents. The whole house was filled, I think.

And, what language was used in all of these performances?

Japanese, Japanese. I think it was part of the learning process of the language, I think. It was, there was no English spoken at all.

What kinds of memories do you have of the Yamasaki's? Mr. and Mrs. Yamasaki?

Kind of strict. There was no, what do you say, fooling around (laughs). I think that was basically what I remember about him.

Did you fool around much? Or were you a mischievous?

No, I didn't since my mother was a teacher, she kept telling me, you know, don't do anything that would bring shame to the family and to her, you know, so I was pretty (laugh) strait laced, or whatever.

What other kinds of expectations were there about your behavior, either from teachers at school or from your parents at home?

Well, to be a good citizen, you know, to stay out of trouble. I think that was basically the expectations of the parent or the community. I think we were pretty well known to the city that we were pretty good citizens, stayed out of trouble. I don't recall kids being taken to the police station for any reason.

Some people talked about the lessons, the ethical and moral lessons that they got from the language school. Do you have, what kinds of memories do you have of those kinds of lessons? Do you think they had an impact on you?

Well, I think that goes down to one’s behavior. Not to bring shame to the community, the Japanese community and to your parents and I think morals was part of that behavior, not to be immoral.

What was it like having a mother as a teacher in the school?

(laughs) Well, I would have preferred that she didn't (laughs) teach but, it didn't bother me that much. I think I was just too young (laughs).

What do you mean you think you would have preferred if she didn't teach?

Well, like other mothers, you know, housewife. But she was a teacher from back in Japan so I guess it was natural for her to be hired as a teacher.

And, what was it like being the son of the photographer for the community, he must have been a prominent figure in the community?

He was. As far as I was concerned, it didn't matter one way or the other.

And, others have talked about some of the chores that they had to do at the school. Do you have any memories of chores that you had to do at the school?

Sweeping, clean-up, about it I think.

Did you have many chores at home?

Not too many (laughs). Being the only child, I think, I got away with a little bit more than maybe other kids. I don't know.

So, you'd come home from, would you go home from Longfellow School first, how, or would you go directly to Japanese Language School?

The elementary school ended at three and the language school started at four. But since I was within few feet of the school, you know, I had some time between three and four.

What would you do when you went home? Would you play?

Ohh, we played at the school ground next door there, you know, baseball or whatever.

Did the boys and girls play together?

No, no, I think boys played with boys and girls with girls.

How about when you had those outings to the beach and you had some of those competitions, were all the children playing together?

Yeah, it was group divided into red group and white group and we competed in that way.

Where would you go on those outings?

There was an open field in south Tacoma where we used to go. I don't remember exact location or anything, but I think it was south Tacoma some place.

What kinds of memories do you have of that, how did you feel when you went on those outings? Did you look forward to them?

I think it was just a matter of participating without any thoughts about whether I liked it or not. But I remember it used to start to rain (laughs) and that was not pleasant (laughs).

So after you went to Longfellow Elementary what middle school did you go to?

McCarver Junior High School.

And there were many more children, Japanese American children?

Yeah, right.

What was that like then, transferring to McCarver after Longfellow?

Nothing, nothing special either way. Just something you did.

And how about high school? Where did you go to high school?

Lincoln High School.

What year did you graduate?

Forty, nineteen forty. As a child, I was pretty much sickly so the doctor recommended that I stay out of school one year so around the third grade I had to stay out of school one year so I was late one year graduating.

Did you also stay out of the language school that year?

I don't remember that (laughs).

What did you do that year?

I have no idea.

Did your family go to any of the churches?

No, not. They weren't very religious. I mean, they participated in some things that the community had, but they didn't attend churches.

So, their social life, where do you think their friends came from? How did they meet their friends if it wasn't through the Buddhist church or the Methodist church?

No, I think it's just community activities that brought them together. I know it was church, like the Minikahda family or some of the other families you know.

Would your parents get involved in any of the school activities in the regular public school?

No, no they did not. I think that's part of something that they did with the Japanese group but not the whole community.

So when you graduated in forty, then what did you do? Did you stay in Tacoma?

I went to college at Puget Sound.

What was your major?

I think it was Business Ad.

When the hostilities between the US and Japan started to grow do you have any memories of those, of talking about these things in your home or with your friends?

No, I think we were totally disinterested.

And then were you surprised? How did you feel when Pearl Harbor happened?

The night of December the seventh, I was attending a bowling tournament downtown. It was a bowling tournament and all of a sudden, we heard that Japan had attacked Pearl Harbor.

What did you all do then?

I just walked home.

Did you sit and talk with your parents at all?

No, not at all. I think the FBI came and I think that’s the night that Dad was taken away.

Ohh, so they came to your house?

mhmm.

Did you have any news or where did he go?

I think he was taken to immigration in Seattle. I think that’s where he was taken to.

How long was he gone?

Well, he was taken to Seattle, then I think to Missoula, Montana and from there he was transferred to Lordsburg, New Mexico, where as we were evacuated separately.

So, then it was just you and your mother during that time?

Right.

And, did you go back to school, did you stay at college at Puget Sound or did you stay and help your mother?

We had to start packing up. I believe the executive order said that we were to be evacuated, you know, so I dropped out of school Sophomore year, started packing up.

And, did you have any, what kind of news did you have of your father, where he was?

Not nothing, I don't think.

Were there many other families that were going through what your family was going through, of having the father taken by the FBI?

I think so, I don't know how many from the Tacoma community but there are a number of, I don't know the numbers.

What did you do with all of your father’s photography equipment and photos?

Photography equipment was left with the police department, I think. And the furnishings were left at the Buddhist Church across the street. So, we were able to recover our furniture, furnishings and also our dad's equipment.

Oh you were?

Yeah.

But you went back to the police station after the war?

That I don't remember how we got it back.

So you and your mother then packed up and went to Pinedale, right?

Right.

What memories do you have of going to the train station and getting on the train?

Leaving Tacoma?

Yes, leaving Tacoma.

Well, it was something I could never forget. It was my twenty-first birthday.

Oh, you're kidding.

Sunday. And it was, what, about fifty degrees around Tacoma at that time. Two days and two nights on the train, ended up in Fresno and it must have been near a hundred degrees (laughs) you know? Then we took a bus to Pinedale. I don't know how far it was from the train station, but we were got there about noon time. We all lined up to go to the mess hall and people were passing out right and left, you know, because of the heat. We just weren't used to that kind of heat.

I remember going into the mess hall and sitting down, and one of the first things that they served was raw spinach salad (laughs). And I had never eaten raw spinach, you know, mother always cooked spinach. I looked at it and said, boy, I think I'm gonna die here (laughs).

And then we, after lunch we got our rooms assigned and I remember we had an asphalt floor. Some barracks had concrete I think, but we had, and the others, had wooden floors, I think. But we had concrete, I mean asphalt floor, and I touched the bedpost and I had to pull my hand away because it was so hot, and the bedpost would sink into the asphalt (laughs). That's my recollection. Then every, almost every day around four o'clock the dust storm would start and all the dust would get blown into our room. Those are the recollections I have of being in Pinedale.

And then you went to Tule Lake?

And then in July we went to Tule Lake.

What was it like in Tule Lake?

It was pretty much the same. Hot at that time. And every day, you know the dust would blow, sand would blow in. Blow into your arid room.

So, given that this happened, the evacuation on your twenty first birthday, were you feeling angry or confused or how were you feeling about this?

So, I just asked, given that it was your 20 also, that it was your 21st birthday, how were you feeling at this time?

I think very unhappy, angry. But what could you do, you know?

Do you remember the registration process in Tacoma? When you had to register for the camps?

No, I don't remember too much.

Apparently it happened in the language school.

Right, right.

How was your mother handling all of this at this time?

She never said. She never said anything. I think it's stoicism. There's a word in Japanese called Shikata ga nai. It can't be helped. I think that's probably her attitude at that time.

Were there any other families that helped with your packing up and moving furniture?

I think there was one fellow who did a lot of carpentry work and he made boxes, crates for us. I remember that. And I don't know who helped to take these huge boxes to store at the church.

And when your father was taken was it because he had the photography equipment?

I, they said because of his photography that they were afraid he would go near a military site to take photographs plus the fact that they said he was potential community leader, which he wasn't. He was pretty much disinterested, but I think those were the reasons why he was taken.

So, we talked about the spinach salad.

Yeah.

And, what food did you mostly eat when you were growing up?

Japanese cooking, you know rice and whatever meat you had, you they were sliced and cooked in soy sauce, that kind of thing.

Rice. My mother would have PTA meetings when she would come home early. I was told to wash rice, so I learned how to wash rice pretty good (laughs).

So, what were those meetings that your mother had?

They were parent teachers meeting, I don't know what kind of things would were discussed, maybe finances? I don't know.

At the language school, everyone had to pay tuition. And was there, did people talk much about that? Was that a problem?

I don't think so. I never heard anything. I didn't know that there was tuition either. Money had to come from someplace, I guess it must have been tuition.

Do you remember any of the report cards of your performance at school?

They used to hand out diploma type of thing, but, there were no grades that I remember.

And, when you brought any work home to your parents from school, did you talk about it much together?

No, no. There’s no such thing as discussion between parents and kids, I think. Dad had to go to work and mother had the school and so, there was no intercourse that much.

What other kinds of things did you do for social activities, especially in high school? Did you participate in any activities at the public school, at Lincoln?

No, because of the fact that I had to go to language school. I did nothing.

So what other types of social things would you do with your friends? Would you go out walking or to the movies?

No, it's just the kids stuff like in the fall we play touch football, in the spring we'd play baseball. I think that's about it. And then we go to the beach and go swimming at the tide flats.

And then, when you were in Tule Lake, you must have met people who came from other places in California?

Mmhmm

And, do you have any thoughts about when you started to talk to people about different places and their lives growing up, any thoughts about how the Tacoma, living in Tacoma may have been different or similar to living in other places on the west coast?

Ohh, not much but I remember at the dances, the boys held the girls differently from the, from us. I think the people from Sacramento, I remember, dance differently than us. Other than that, I don't know that I remember anything.

How would you dance?

Well (laughs), we would hold the girl's hand pretty much like this, but the kids from Sacramento, they seem like they would hold the girl's hands way down like this, you know, (laughs) things like that, I think we were kind of different.

So, when did you start dating? Did you do dating?

No, I think I was little too shy (laughs).

Where did you meet your wife?

Ohh, that was after the war in Denver, Colorado.

Did your mother have any expectations, or I guess what kinds of expectations did your mother have about you getting married?

No, no, I don't think mother even know about it, you know.

So, what was daily life like for you in Tule Lake?

Well, I was, the first month we got there I caught a bad cold. So, I went to the camp doctors, and they suspected that I might have tuberculosis, so I was in the hospital for a few months under observation. I remember that. So, my social life wasn't, wasn't there much.

Did you stay, did you and your mother stay at Tule Lake the whole time during the war?

I've forgotten how long I stayed in Tule Lake, but what happened was that Tule Lake was designated as a camp for those who wanted to go to Japan, and ugh, pretty much considered just, a disloyal camp, and at that time my dad was still in Lordsburg, New Mexico. And order came out that those who wanted to leave Tule Lake and go to another camp can do so. And, I think the government pretty much was encouraging people to leave, so I wrote a letter to the authorities, I forget, Dillon Meyers or something, that I won't leave this camp unless dad was released. So then I got a letter back from them that his case is being, will be reviewed, and short time later they released him to Tule Lake, so then we left Tule Lake to go to Pinedale, not Pinedale, but the one in Idaho. So then I spent a few months in Idaho camp, then I was able to relocate. They gave me a form that they wanted me to sign that says, I think it said ‘Would you be willing to volunteer for military service?’ and then the next question was ‘Would you be willing to serve if drafted?’ So, I wrote no on the first question, would I volunteer. And I said, on the second one, I said yes, I would serve if, you know, drafted. Short time after that I got released to leave the camp to relocate.

And how about your parents?

They stayed in Pinedale until Dad, when the government decided they were going to close the camp, Dad was able to get a job in Denver, Colorado. So, that’s where he relocated to.

What was the job in Denver?

It was a photo finishing job, printing, developing, retouching for the best studio in Denver at that time.

How did he find that job?

I think through the uhh, some group that did that kind of thing, provide jobs for those who relocate. I don't know who they work for, whether they’re with the government or, I don't know.

Did your family ever consider going back to Tacoma? Why didn't you go back to Tacoma?

I hated the climate. It was depressing to me that you have three hundred days, that gray sky, rain and snow. I just hated it. That’s the only reason.

Was it the same for your parents? How about your parents?

I guess they didn't mind. Just we were together, I think

So that’s the only thing you disliked about Tacoma, the weather? Was there anything else you disliked about it?

Well, I think that was it until I went back one time for a reunion in Saltwater. The town is to me, was run down. It's kind of felt sad about that. But at the time, the weather, the climate was something that I just didn't like. Even as a child, I remember not liking it (laughs).

So where did you go when you left camp since you left first?

For some reason I don't know but I relocated to Detroit and I worked there for, I think a year and I didn't like that humid climate in summer and cold, cold winter, so then I decided I want to leave Detroit and I went to apply for a job. There again, I don't know what group was running this, providing jobs for Niseis that left camp but anyway I went and applied and I got a job in the Adirondack Mountains in upstate New York at a resort called the Raquette Lake which is one of the chain of lakes, glacial lakes. The most famous, of course, is Lake Placid but anyway, there this was a lake that was the area was called the Jewish Alps and a lot of people, Jewish people from New York City went there during the summer. The most famous person was Gabriel Heatter a radio newscaster. He suffered from a bad case of asthma, hay fever, so he had a place there at Raquette Lake.

So I spent from I think from July the fourth when the camp opened till Labor Day when the camp closed. After camp closed a bunch of us Niseis went to New York City and we stayed at a hostel in Brooklyn, and then after, I don't know, maybe a week or so we went, I took a train down to Philadelphia and visited some friends.

Then I decided that I want to go to LA, so I took a train and we were approaching Denver, and I thought I'd like to see Denver, so I got off the train and went to the Japanese community area. The Main Street there for Japanese was street called Larimer Street and there was a hotel that the Japanese family ran so I rented a room there and it was the front rooms facing the street so I was looking down from this window and across the street I saw a man walking that resembled my dad. So I decided, I wonder if that's dad. And so I ran down the stairs and went across the street, and sure enough, it was dad. He had gotten this job with the studio and he was staying in Denver so, (cough) excuse me, so I decided I'd stay in Denver so I stayed there, and I was there for about six, seven years. That's where I met my wife. We started dating and finally got married.

How did you meet?

At a, there's a group called the YPCC, Young People's Christian Conference and they were having a meeting at a minister’s home and I was invited by another friend. So I went there and I met my wife through this little YPCC group.

She also of Japanese descent?

Yes, she was born and raised in Fresno and she had been evacuated to post, one of the post camps. And before she, before the war, she had lived with a male cousin and his wife who was who ran the Angel Beauty Salon here in Los Angeles before the war. And so she stayed with them and learned the trade. And then, after the war, they, this cousin moved to Denver and relocated to Denver and started this Angel Beauty Salon in Denver and she went to work there as a beautician.

What work were you doing in Denver?

Pardon me?

What work were you doing in Denver?

Before I left Denver I was with the Air Force Finance Center in Denver and at that time, it was right after the war and uhh, they were hiring civil service employees but they were under what’s called, what was called the indefinite appointment, which meant that whenever congress cut off funds for the finance center the first ones that will be dropped were the people with the indefinite appointment and I felt very insecure about that and I had a daughter, a child coming so then I decided that I want to learn a trade so I learn, when I moved here to LA I went to a trade school, a dry cleaning trade school and in the meantime my wife’s cousin wanted to move to California also, so they moved here in the San Fernando Valley and started a beauty shop here in Tarzana. So that’s why we came here to California.

Umm, so you came to Los Angeles and you bought a dry cleaning business you said?

Yes.

So explain to me how, what happened when your parents left the camp? Had you lost touch with them that you didn't know that they were in Denver?

We used to write letters, my mother and I but uhh nothing was mentioned about dad moving to Denver, so I didn't know that he was in Denver.

Was your mother in Denver?

She came a little bit later.

So when you wrote letters with your mother what language would you use?

It's Japanese. Japanese.

So, why were you heading to LA when you stopped in Denver?

Why? I just want to come back to the coast and I having been born and raised in a seaport town, I think I just wanted to be by a sea.

And then your, when you opened your business did you buy this house?

Yes, I bought this house.

And, your parents, when did you buy the house next door?

At the same time. Yeah, houses were cheap then (laughs).

And, did your parents follow you here?

Yeah, then I called them, then he got a job for a couple years with a photographer down in Tarzana and then he retired.

How about your mother, what did she do in Denver and Los Angeles?

Ohh she didn't do anything. She was just strictly housewife.

No more teaching?

No more teaching no.

And so, you have two daughters? Is that right?

Yes.

And you were telling me just a moment ago that umm your father in the backyard liked to grow some flowers?

Yes.

Can you tell me again about that?

Well, he’s, that was his first love. He, in Tacoma,he entered a contest, a show, and got first award. He used to grow flowers that were this big, you know, beautiful flowers, but he was so meticulous. Every night he'd go out with a flashlight to pick worms off of the flowers in his he would lie in these flowers and they were just perfectly straight all the way across.

And also he loved classical music. When he’s, he was listening to the radio, classical music, I couldn't even drop a pin. He was so fussy. And when we lived in Denver and he worked at the studio downtown he'd go to the main library in Denver right downtown and he took out every album the Denver Library had, twice over, just to listen to the music. He loved classic that much. To be born in Japan, born and raised there, you'd think he'd be more interested in Japanese classics but it was European classics for him. I think that probably he was reincarnated European. He loved the heavy classics.

How about your mother did she have, what kinds of hobbies did she have?

She just read. She did a lot of reading. Magazine or things.

So, as you look back on your childhood growing up in Tacoma, are there certain things you would want your children and grandchildren to know? There are a couple of things you wanted them to know?

I don't. Can't think right now.

Would you want them to know that you attended the language school? Things that you did there?

You know, we never talked about the past much. I don't know if it was because of the war and evacuation or what. They never had time for us and I guess I was working, busy working trying to make a living, so I don't know. My wife was working as a beautician, so, we didn't have much time to have discussions about things.

How about your grandchildren? Did they ask any questions?

Not that much. I don't know if its the times or what. Kids aren't interested in what your parents did or what your grandparents did. I think that’s it.

So, you know that the language school building in Tacoma is being, has been torn down, and it’s no longer there and I mentioned earlier that they're looking for ways to memorialize the building and you were talking earlier umm about some things you would want to make sure happened and didn't happen at the memorial. Do you mind speaking about that again?

Well, my wife and I were driving up 399 or 395 which is a highway east of the Sierras and we stopped at this site which used to be Manzanar Relocation Center and there’s a little memorial plaque at what was the entrance to the camp and some people have vandalized it, taking an axe and hacking at it, scaring it badly, desecrating it. That I felt real angry about. So, what I feel about this memorial that is being planned for the language school in Tacoma, I would like to see it placed in an area that is not that too easily accessible so that some of these crazy people who desecrated, like this Manzanar plaque, that’s my real strong feeling with regards to it. It’s wonderful that such a thing is being planned, and I hope it does happen but I hope it’s protected.

So I have another question, just a general question about the school. What seems to be unique about Tacoma, is that in many other communities along the West Coast, the language school was started by a church, so the Methodist Church, or the Buddhist Church or the Baptist Church, but in Tacoma it was nonsectarian.

Right.

So do you think that mattered in terms of the language school’s role in the community?

I'm sorry, I couldn't hear that.

Do you think that it mattered that it was a nonsectarian institution, it wasn't associated with one of the churches in terms of the language school’s role?

Well, I think it was, more or less, Yamasaki. Mr. Yamasaki’s idea or plan or feeling that the school ran the way it was run. I think he was very sincere in his feelings.

Did you like the way he ran it?

I think so. I think so. Most of the, I don't know about San Francisco or Los Angeles, but he wanted the school to be operated every day. A lot of the other communities, I think, had language schools, but they were open only on Saturdays.

Yeah, that’s an important difference.

I think that’s because of Mr. Yamasaki.

Something else we've heard from other people is, it sounds like Tacoma’s Japanese community was umm, it was a bit, it sounds like Tacoma was a fairly segregated city. There was a Japanese American community, German American community and there wasn't a lot of interaction. Do you agree with that portrayal of Tacoma?

Only that, it was pretty much like that up and down the West Coast. I don't know why. Maybe because of prejudice. I know California was a vicious state for racial prejudice.

Was it different? Was California different in terms of its racial prejudice?

Oh, I think so, I think so. From politicians to ordinary farmers because a lot of this land that the Japanese developed was stolen from the Japanese by white farmers.

How about your house in Tacoma where you grew up? And all your belongings that you left in the church? What did you do with those, how did you get those belongings back and what happened to the house?

We rented the house. Twenty-five dollars a month. Our belongings were returned to us by the government. I don't know if it was state or federal government or the war relocation authority, but they were returned to us. I had, we had to sell the car for a hundred dollars. It was a nineteen thirty four Buick. But, like my wife’s father, he was so afraid, he had a number of guns so he, I understand, he just took those guns and dropped them in the outhouse (laughs). But we never had guns in the house, just photographic equipment.

So what, you rented your house while you were in camps, is that right?

Well, no, we left the house. After we were put on the train.

Oh I see so you were renting it.

We were renting it.

About the Buddhist Church and the Methodist church, and your family wasn't really involved in them. Do you think those churches were important to the Japanese American community?

Oh, I think very much so.

In what ways?

Well, they brought the community together, and, even the churches, I think stress good citizenship and old or older parents, it was a place to be, a place to go.

Did your parents really go?

Participation in activities, I think they participated, but they didn't attend church as such.

Which church’s activities did they participate in?

Mostly Buddhist, I think, the fact that we lived so close to the church.

Did you know where the Buddhist church was and the Methodist Church, were you aware of these buildings as a child?

Oh yeah, I remember when it was built. We've always been right close by, all, almost all of my life. In fact all of my life until the war.

Would you also participate, which church’s activities would you go to?

Did I?

Yeah.

Ugh, that’s funny, when I was probably in my elementary school times I had more friends in the Methodist Church there, so I was more active in the Methodist Church but as I got older, through my classmates and friends, I became more active in the Buddhist church. Goes to show you I'm not very religious (laughs). But I think that was my style (laughs).

So, if you think about, you said that you thought these churches brought people together. Umm, how does that compare with the role of the Japanese Language School community?

In what way?

Do you think that the language school also brought people together as a community center?

Oh definitely. Definitely. I think, for the Isseis, you know, it was one of the three centers for them being together.

What are the three centers?

The Methodist Church, and the Buddhist Church, and the school.

And how about for the Nisei?

I think for the Nisei, maybe a little bit less, but still, I don't think the Niseis as a whole, as a group, participated too much in outside the, what activity or whatever. I think the churches and the school were just very important to us.

Are there other things about Tacoma, growing up, and your parents, especially your father as a photographer for the community and your mother as a teacher, that you’d like to share today that we didn't talk about?

No, I think I covered pretty much what they all feel or felt. I think it's beautiful that the University and you folks are so much interested in the history of the Japanese American community.

Well, we want to thank you for participating in this project.

You’re welcome.

It’s been a real pleasure.